D&D 5E The problem with 5e

[embee]

I agree with everything else, but a round is still only six seconds long, and an action isn't even everything you can do over the course of those six seconds.

Of course, I also rule that a healing potion is like a can of soda rather than a shot, because it's supposed to feel significant.

It's a Critical Role problem. CR allows the players to drink the healing potion as a bonus action.

Six seconds is a long time. You can drink a 16 oz bottle of water in six seconds. And most potions, RAW, "consist of one ounce of liquid." (DMG at 139). Hence the belief that, sure, just pound it back in your bonus action.

 

[embee]

I think there are two perspectives going on in this thread:

1. There are changes to the game that can make it more like the "old days."
2. The "old days" is more about the social conditions of playing (for good or ill or both) than any particular rule-set you are using.

Of course, both can be true at the same time.

I am just trying to create fun group experiences through gaming with my friends now, which is why I like re-running adapted/modified modules I once played twenty years ago and stuff like that - but I think it is cool in how a new group does it differently - the specifics of the modules mean less to me (except it should be "good")

I completely agree.

One thing I did was bring back the negative HP and put a basement floor at -10. It sounds harsh. But my players know that when they're in the single digits on HP, they should think about beating a hasty retreat.

It does require buy-in on my part. If the players are going to make decent decisions about when to bug out, they need to know what they're up against. I make sure I'm diligent about monster conditions. These are experienced adventurers. They can clearly see if the monster is bloodied and certainly if it's on its last legs. They may want to stick around for that last round, even if they're at 3 hp and getting hit for 15 is death, if they think they can kill the monster before its next turn. They don't get to know what the monster's exact hp is, but they do get to know how it looks like it's doing.

And that's the fun... The tactical aspect of it. "Do I take a chance with another round of battle? If I miss and it hits, I'm dead. Do I want to risk it?"

When you bring back the negative hp, a healing potion doesn't bring you back to consciousness automatically. If you're at -7 hp and get healed for 6 hp, you're still unconscious. And still dying.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Six seconds is a long time. You can drink a 16 oz bottle of water in six seconds. And most potions, RAW, "consist of one ounce of liquid." (DMG at 139).

Perhaps. But when it comes to removing the stopper from a vial with one hand, and throwing back the contents, the total investment is much closer to the four seconds associated with your action than the one second associated with your bonus action.

For that matter, simply being able to retrieve the potion with one hand, using the one second associated with your free object interaction, is incredibly generous. Being able to retrieve the potion in one second, and drink with another second, before spending the next four seconds to swing a sword three times or cast a spell... that would be pretty extreme.

 

[embee]

Perhaps. But when it comes to removing the stopper from a vial with one hand, and throwing back the contents, the total investment is much closer to the four seconds associated with your action than the one second associated with your bonus action.

For that matter, simply being able to retrieve the potion with one hand, using the one second associated with your free object interaction, is incredibly generous. Being able to retrieve the potion in one second, and drink with another second, before spending the next four seconds to swing a sword three times or cast a spell... that would be pretty extreme.

All I'm saying is that Mercer lets them use a healing potion as a bonus action. Which is insane.

 

[Oofta]

When DMs tell me they're using gritty realism rest systems, that's fine. I just refuse to play a weakened caster who takes a week to get his spells back. And if no one takes a cleric, that's fine. Let the campaign die due to the DM's lack of understanding how the game works.

Why does it matter? I mean, I could fit the same number of encounters into a single day if I wanted to, the alternate rest rules just change pacing. I do it because exploration/interaction is a big part of my games and I don't want to feel like I have to run a scenario like the old "24" TV series every time.

 

[Mercurius]

Good post. With regards to healing, one of my favorite things about 4E were healing surges - they were a revelation and fit well with the concept of HP as an abstraction. They were thankfully mostly ported over into 5E with HD.

But yes, they make the game less deadly. But my suggestion would be to address that issue from the other end: more dangerous encounters. HD allows for PCs to re-up and continue playing, without needing healing potions and/or extended down-time. It serves an important in-game purpose, and it also makes sense with the concept of HP. Meaning, you don't need to adjust the rules to increase the danger - just increase the danger (e.g. increasing the challenge rating by +1 relative to what the rules recommend).

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Good post. With regards to healing, one of my favorite things about 4E were healing surges - they were a revelation and fit well with the concept of HP as an abstraction. They were thankfully mostly ported over into 5E with HD.

But yes, they make the game less deadly. But my suggestion would be to address that issue from the other end: more dangerous encounters. HD allows for PCs to re-up and continue playing, without needing healing potions and/or extended down-time. It serves an important in-game purpose, and it also makes sense with the concept of HP. Meaning, you don't need to adjust the rules to increase the danger - just increase the danger (e.g. increasing the challenge rating by +1 relative to what the rules recommend).

Honestly I think my most frequent dm does this. He eyeballs it and goes with it. And some of the most fun experiences were from times we were in over our heads.

not too long ago he shoved me into a pit of ghouls! That woke me up!

 

[Dragonsbane]

Started on the Blue Box in the 80s, I feel the OP. Personally I have a ton of house rules that make things more old school, more deadly, resting isn't regeneration, and so on. Playing more Cypher Fantasy atm tbh, much less powergaming and optimization and more story/narration.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Started on the Blue Box in the 80s, I feel the OP. Personally I have a ton of house rules that make things more old school, more deadly, resting isn't regeneration, and so on. Playing more Cypher Fantasy atm tbh, much less powergaming and optimization and more story/narration.

Thing is, you don't need house rules to make 5e more deadly. You have infinite dragons at your disposal as DM - just as in any edition.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Minor nitpick: a monster hitting a downed PC attacks with advantage and automatically crits giving them 2 failed death saves.

But most people forget the disadvantage on perception with darkvision, it's a good callout.

Good call. I'm going for a more action-hero style narrative game so I never attack players when they are KOed in combat, but realistically there are many battles where that would be something that should happen. I'm thinking either animals/beasts (who are attacking the party to eat the party), very intelligent individual NPCs, and well led army style troops trained to finish off an opponent.