D&D 5E The Printers Can't Handle WotC's One D&D Print Runs!

One of the reasons why the three new core rulebooks next year will not be released together is because D&D is such a juggernaut that the printers can't actually handle the size of the print runs!

Jeremy Crawford told Polygon "Our print runs are pretty darn big and printers are telling us you can’t give us these three books at the same time.” And Chris Perkins added that "The print runs we’re talking about are massive. That’s been not only true of the core books, but also Tasha’s Cauldron. It’s what we call a high-end problem."

 

[Velderan]

Again, I think books ought to be affordable abd not luxury items. But this just goes to my point: if the cover price is too costly for people they will just stop buying the books, reduce their buying and or resort to SRDs, making their own version of the game, relying on old editions, used boots of cheaper RPGs. In the present economy I think that is a very real thing publishers have to consider

And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they are considering that since they do conduct surveys to gather metrics to understand their audience. If an extra $10 profit per book offsets the projected lower number of sales, it's worth it.

And I'm sorry, but you'd be hard pressed to make a convincing argument about how a game where you pretend to be an elf won't always be considered a luxury item. They're entertainment items and assuming you're not a shelf collector who buys every book just because, the value the books typically hold in play hours is well worth the $60 if not more. My table of 7 spent 72 3 hour sessions playing our last campaign, which cost $50 to run.

 

[TwoSix]

Of course it isn’t there fault. But if wages aren’t up enough, publishers need to balance inflation against what people can or are willing to spend. That is why I said publishers as a whole should take a good look at ways to reduce production cost

I mean, they can do that, for sure, but what are we willing to sacrifice to hit a $50 or $40 price point? Page count? Full color art? Cheaper paper? Softcover instead of hardcover?

I know for me personally, I'm more likely to drop $70 on a nice book than $50 on an abridged, lesser quality version. But I understand not everyone is in a position to be less sensitive to price point.

Again, I think books ought to be affordable abd not luxury items. But this just goes to my point: if the cover price is too costly for people they will just stop buying the books, reduce their buying and or resort to SRDs, making their own version of the game, relying on old editions, used boots of cheaper RPGs. In the present economy I think that is a very real thing publishers have to consider

I mean, I'm sure WotC is aware of this, and they're making the decision they think will maximize revenue. Maybe they're wrong! I'd say we'll find out, but ultimately the possible success of a $50 2024 PHB will always be a hypothetical.

 

[Oofta]

Of course it isn’t there fault. But if wages aren’t up enough, publishers need to balance inflation against what people can or are willing to spend. That is why I said publishers as a whole should take a good look at ways to reduce production cost

Again, I think books ought to be affordable abd not luxury items. But this just goes to my point: if the cover price is too costly for people they will just stop buying the books, reduce their buying and or resort to SRDs, making their own version of the game, relying on old editions, used boots of cheaper RPGs. In the present economy I think that is a very real thing publishers have to consider

Define "people". Someone that is living on the street because they can't afford rent wont be able to afford it. Elon Musk could buy WOTC out tomorrow so he could run it into the ground just for funzies. The vast majority of people who have ever been in a position to buy the books can still buy the books. TTRPGs are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment out there, cost of the product is not the biggest barrier people face. Finding a group, finding the time to play, understanding the rules are a far bigger barrier.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I mean, they can do that, for sure, but what are we willing to sacrifice to hit a $50 or $40 price point? Page count? Full color art? Cheaper paper? Softcover instead of hardcover?

I know for me personally, I'm more likely to drop $70 on a nice book than $50 on an abridged, lesser quality version. But I understand not everyone is in a position to be less sensitive to price point.

To be honest 70 is a pretty steep cut off for me. I just wouldn't spend that on an RPG book. That said, cheeper doesn't have to mean lower quality. I don't know what WOTCs pre-production and production costs are, so I can't say where they may be able to cut.

Personally I prefer black and white to full color, so I would be fine with them making that kind of change (or at least reducing the amount of full color art). The 5E books had a lot of full color art in them. But people are going to have different opinions on that. When it comes to the page count, I would prefer lower page count even if the overall price is still more (I think the key thing is keeping these cover prices under 50). One thing I notice with WOTC books is they probably could have a bit more brevity to them. Again this is a flavor and taste thing, so not everyone will agree.

Still I would imagine that those kinds of costs are a bigger price cover consideration for smaller companies like myself than WOTC. Given how much marketing they do, and that they have full time staff, I am guessing a lot of the cost is going into things we don't see (which isn't to say they are unimportant things, I just think focusing on art, writing, editing etc and having the argument be do want these things or a higher cost might not be the complete picture and it might unfairly put the creatives on the front line of this debate)

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

To be honest 70 is a pretty steep cut off for me. I just wouldn't spend that on an RPG book. That said, cheeper doesn't have to mean lower quality. I don't know what WOTCs pre-production and production costs are, so I can't say where they may be able to cut.

Personally I prefer black and white to full color, so I would be fine with them making that kind of change (or at least reducing the amount of full color art).

I would pay $100 a book for a Bard-free edition.

thinking....


That's my opening bid.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Define "people". Someone that is living on the street because they can't afford rent wont be able to afford it. Elon Musk could buy WOTC out tomorrow so he could run it into the ground just for funzies. The vast majority of people who have ever been in a position to buy the books can still buy the books. TTRPGs are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment out there, cost of the product is not the biggest barrier people face. Finding a group, finding the time to play, understanding the rules are a far bigger barrier.

There is a spectrum of people between living on the street and those who can easily afford to buy expensive books. When I say people, I mean gamers I know and people I know. A lot of my friends are on budgets, have financial difficulties, etc. I also hear from people who contact me because of my publishing company and will explain to me that they can't afford one of my books. There are people who are working who can't buy them. There are people who are disabled who maybe aren't working as much they used to, who can't afford them. There are people who have a family and are just getting by and can't afford them. There are a lot of people who are working class, poor and working poor in this country. And many of them are gamers.

 

[Bedrockgames]

And I'm sorry, but you'd be hard pressed to make a convincing argument about how a game where you pretend to be an elf won't always be considered a luxury item. They're entertainment items and assuming you're not a shelf collector who buys every book just because, the value the books typically hold in play hours is well worth the $60 if not more. My table of 7 spent 72 3 hour sessions playing our last campaign, which cost $50 to run.

We might be defining luxury item differently. But I just don't see books or PRGs in general as luxury item. I consider things like fur coats, yachts, and designer bags to be luxury items. I don't think the RPG hobby is a luxury hobby. It isn't skiing or an activity like that which requires large investment. And hopefully we can maintain that in the hobby.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I would pay $100 a book for a Bard-free edition.

thinking....


That's my opening bid.

Lol. Fair enough. I'd cut out feats

 

[TwoSix]

To be honest 70 is a pretty steep cut off for me. I just wouldn't spend that on an RPG book. That said, cheeper doesn't have to mean lower quality. I don't know what WOTCs pre-production and production costs are, so I can't say where they may be able to cut.

Personally I prefer black and white to full color, so I would be fine with them making that kind of change (or at least reducing the amount of full color art). The 5E books had a lot of full color art in them. But people are going to have different opinions on that. When it comes to the page count, I would prefer lower page count even if the overall price is still more (I think the key thing is keeping these cover prices under 50). One thing I notice with WOTC books is they probably could have a bit more brevity to them. Again this is a flavor and taste thing, so not everyone will agree.

Cheaper doesn't have to mean lower-quality, but it usually does.

And yea, this is definitely a case where tastes differ. I'm not a fan of B&W art, and will pay a premium for pretty, full-color art.

Still I would imagine that those kinds of costs are a bigger price cover consideration for smaller companies like myself than WOTC. Given how much marketing they do, and that they have full time staff, I am guessing a lot of the cost is going into things we don't see (which isn't to say they are unimportant things, I just think focusing on art, writing, editing etc and having the argument be do want these things or a higher cost might not be the complete picture and it might unfairly put the creatives on the front line of this debate)

Oh yea, I'm sure the money is the result of many different departments contributing, as opposed to the pretty obvious expenditures of a one-man shop selling a PDF on DriveThruRPG or Itch.io. But there's obviously some kind of value add from that, or we wouldn't be talking about this, and instead we would just be buying PDFs from those one-man shops.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

We might be defining luxury item differently. But I just don't see books or PRGs in general as luxury item. I consider things like fur coats, yachts, and designer bags to be luxury items. I don't think the RPG hobby is a luxury hobby. It isn't skiing or an activity like that which requires large investment. And hopefully we can maintain that in the hobby.

Luxury as in not a necessity, like food. If you compare the dollar cost per unit time of RPG books, even at a much higher price point than they are now, it's a far, far cheaper activity than:

• going to a restaurant
• going to a movie
• going to a sporting event
• hitting the bars
• just about any other form of entertainment out there

I just can't agree with your complaint. No one is being priced out of the hobby.