D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Micah Sweet]

I meant in Infinity War when Thanos arrives in Wakanda, he didn't have Mjolnir then. Still stopped Thanos hand and survived a punch, which was cool, but not really something he should be able to do.

Cap is not without superpowers, they're just more subtle than most.

 

[CreamCloud0]

This doesn't sit well with me. Powerful build IIRC isn't even something a human in D&D can get. A mid level martial should be able to at least match mundane athletes, whist a high level one should be able to surpass them. Like not Hulk strong, but Captain America strong.

cap as the peak strength of a fighter is really undercutting what i think they should be able to do, i mean yeah maybe hulk is a but much for a standard fighter subclass that doesn't grant additional STR enhancements but i'd want my level 20 20 STR fighter to be leaning closer to what hulk can do rather than cap at their peak.

maybe that's just me though.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Okay fine.

We will offer the new abilities only to Eldritch Knights, Psi Warriors, Rune Knights, Echo Knights, Samurai and Arcane Archers. Champion fighters, Battlemasters, Cavaliers, and Bannerets will be barred from getting these abilities. That way, only the magical classes can do extraordinary stuff, and everyone else can be objectively worse, just like you want. Because, these aren't replacing subclass abilities, these were meant to be added to the fighter directly.

I'm sure all these people who want mundane fighters will be perfectly happy being denied access to abilities until they decide to have access to supernatural powers, and players won't start taking the magical and supernatural subclasses who are just as good in combat but far superior out of combat since they just flat out get more abilities.

I'd love to know who you're talking to. Sounds fun.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I actually agree with this stance in broad level, I really want fantasy worlds to be coherent. But this to me doesn't mean we need to explain everything that is different than on Earth. Some things simply can be different, and that's that.

They certainly can be, yes. But if the thing that's different otherwise looks the same as something that isn't (for example, normal looking humans that have superpowers for no discernable reason), that I think should be called out, or perhaps given a different name. I suppose you don't even need a full explanation (although I still want one), just a mention that the difference exists it wouldn't be obvious.

If a man in a three-piece suit steps out of an office building, drops his briefcase, and takes to the air under his own power, I don't think I'm out of line to ask how that happened.

 

[ezo]

cap as the peak strength of a fighter is really undercutting what i think they should be able to do, i mean yeah maybe hulk is a but much for a standard fighter subclass that doesn't grant additional STR enhancements but i'd want my level 20 20 STR fighter to be leaning closer to what hulk can do rather than cap at their peak.

maybe that's just me though.

In this case it is you compared to me!

I am fine with maximum Strength being at Cap's strength or a bit higher, but Hulk strength is way out of bounds for a PC IMO. If we added an Epic level structure 21-30, then maybe around level 28+ Hulk strength works for me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

cap as the peak strength of a fighter is really undercutting what i think they should be able to do, i mean yeah maybe hulk is a but much for a standard fighter subclass that doesn't grant additional STR enhancements but i'd want my level 20 20 STR fighter to be leaning closer to what hulk can do rather than cap at their peak.

maybe that's just me though.

So superhuman strength then?

 

[CreamCloud0]

So superhuman strength then?

At max level? With 20 STR? Yes, sure, fine, superhuman, call it whatever, but where I’m always going to argue is if you say they need to be in any way more supernatural than the average dirt farmer or town guard to achieve that.

Now note: I’m not saying they’re NOT supernatural, but they’re not supernatural to any significant degree more than what any ordinary citizen might be in a land of elves and magic and dragons.

 

[CreamCloud0]

In this case it is you compared to me!

I am fine with maximum Strength being at Cap's strength or a bit higher, but Hulk strength is way out of bounds for a PC IMO. If we added an Epic level structure 21-30, then maybe around level 28+ Hulk strength works for me.

I mean yeah i said as much in my post that hulk would be overdoing it, but I think mythic fighters could do a bit better than cap, find the halfway point between the two.

Cap visibly struggles to prevent a helicopter from taking off, i find that probably a pretty apt point of comparison for something like a Roc or a lesser-mid-sized dragon, things I feel a high level fighter should be able to, if not reliably then at least have a better than even chance of being able to pull out of the sky with a decent rope and an athletics check.

 

[ezo]

I mean yeah i said as much in my post that hulk would be overdoing it, but I think mythic fighters could do a bit better than cap, find the halfway point between the two.

Cap visibly struggles to prevent a helicopter from taking off, i find that probably a pretty apt point of comparison for something like a Roc or a lesser-mid-sized dragon, things I feel a high level fighter should be able to, if not reliably then at least have a better than even chance of being able to pull out of the sky with a decent rope and an athletics check.

I'm not a big superhero/comic fan, but trying to find some info on how strong Cap is supposed to be ranged quite a bit, everything from lift 800 to lift a couple tons.

We know the current rules are not good to model what humans can do in real life without adding some special feature, etc. But part of this is also the fault of WotC on a lack of rule guidance. A STR 20 human is limited to 600 lbs (STRx30) for maximum lift, drag, carry currently. However, if we add a bit of guidance via Strength checks (using Athletics or some other "lifting" skill like the Brawn we use in our games).

Something along the lines of make a DC 20 Strength (???) check and your maximum lift, drag, carry is doubled until the start of your next turn. DC 25 could be triple, DC 30 quadruple or something.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Yes, including why those things might be different and what implications for worldbuilding those differences might lead to.

Then I think we're not as far apart as your impassable divide post would suggest. We also think having that fantasy stuff is fun. And I, personally, very much enjoy thinking through the logic for how such things might exist and what implications may follow.

Which is exactly why I don't want the game to do it for me.