The GM's World, the Players' Campaign

[Aldarc]

I'm not going to pretend there is no self-gratification the original building process, but it is also explicitly built for the gratification of the players, both in providing them discovery of the sort of things that they enjoy discovering, and to pointedly provide circumstances, scenarios, and opportunities for the players to explore their characters, especially the facets that are added in the course of play. If it is only full of things that I alone enjoy, I haven't done my job.

IMHO, I would only change one word in your above argument, and I would agree: "it is ideally built for the gratification of the players." I don't think that it is explicitly built for the gratification of the players as a hard and fast rule or always the case. We are talking about the subtle difference between the should and the is or the ideal and the common praxis.

I say this because I have unfortunately played in far too many homebrews that felt like they were created more for the GM's self-gratification than anyone else's gratification at the table. I'm sure each and every GM may have thought that they were homebrewing for the players' satisfication, but in truth it felt like were supposed to bask in the glory of the world that the GM created and heap praise upon their masterful worldbuilding.

 

[hawkeyefan]

To have both requires... collaboration!

By definition it does. You cannot discover something you already know is there.

Who's doing the discovering? What's being discovered?

I mean, does a character need to discover their hometown? Does the player need to discover the character's hometown?

 

[pointofyou]

Who's doing the discovering? What's being discovered?

I mean, does a character need to discover their hometown? Does the player need to discover the character's hometown?

Can the GM discover who the PCs are?

 

[Reynard]

Can the GM discover who the PCs are?

Ideally, they'd have to.

 

[pointofyou]

Ideally, they'd have to.

I don't think the ideal would be for the GM to start knowing nothing about the characters. Especially not if the campaign is intended to eventually reflect the characters' interests and goals.

 

[Reynard]

I don't think the ideal would be for the GM to start knowing nothing about the characters. Especially not if the campaign is intended to eventually reflect the characters' interests and goals.

I think it would be ideal for everyone to start with a clean slate and everyone discover everything in play -- about the world and its inhabitants AND about the PCs including their own. But then I think improv, no prep and off the cuff gaming is generally more fun than highly prepped.

 

[pointofyou]

I think it would be ideal for everyone to start with a clean slate and everyone discover everything in play -- about the world and its inhabitants AND about the PCs including their own. But then I think improv, no prep and off the cuff gaming is generally more fun than highly prepped.

That's presuming the PCs are strangers to the game's setting. After playing in some distinctly unsatisfactory games built around that presumption I strongly prefer to presume the PCs know at least the part of the setting where play begins.

 

[Irlo]

That's presuming the PCs are strangers to the game's setting. After playing in some distinctly unsatisfactory games built around that presumption I strongly prefer to presume the PCs know at least the part of the setting where play begins.

I think the intention was that the players discover everything through play. The PCs have familiarity with their own world, at least in part.

 

[Cadence]

I do that throughout play -- "You have come to the village of Breakwater. There is no inn and only one alehouse but Bob, your character knows the operator. Who is it?" --

I really like coming up with things like that on the spot as DM or with more time between sessions as player or DM. It really throws me as a player in game.

 

[pointofyou]

I think the intention was that the players discover everything through play. The PCs have familiarity with their own world, at least in part.

I agree the PCs should be familiar with their part of their world. I think it's up to the GM to make sure the players have adequate information to play that.