The Boondock Saints - your opinion?

[Felix]

Armed vigilance (I think that's how it is called!?) is a crime. Murder is a crime, too.

I don't know that what they did would qualify, but Justifiable Homicide is a legal defense in the states.

And in Alabama, the second question to determine guilt of a defendant is: did the victim need killing?

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

And in Alabama, the second question to determine guilt of a defendant is: did the victim need killing?

Pppbbbttt!!! It's not quite that easy to get off here, even though there have been some odd cases.

(El Grumpo lives in Alabama)

But I still think looking to movies for a coherant moral or ethical system is usually a mistake.

 

[drnuncheon]

Does anyone remember exactly what the Saints forbid at the end of the movie?

Well, according to IMDB (which is not necessarily accurate) it went something like this:

Connor: Now you will receive us.
Murphy: We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry.
Connor: We do not want your tired and sick.
Murphy: It is your corrupt we claim.
Connor: It is your evil that will be sought by us.
Murphy: With every breath, we shall hunt them down.
Connor: Each day we will spill their blood, 'til it rains down from the skies.
Murphy: Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
Connor: These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior, and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost.
Murphy: There are varying degrees of evil. We urge you lesser forms of filth, not to push the bounds and cross over, in to true corruption, into our domain.
Connor: For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day you will reap it.
Murphy: And we will send you to whatever god you wish.

 

[Fast Learner]

But I still think looking to movies for a coherant moral or ethical system is usually a mistake.

You don't need to do that, though, for movies to provide interesting material for moral and ethical consideration, hopefully to better refine (or even re-examine) your own system.

 

[JackGiantkiller]

Ask yourselves a question. Who empowers policemen, judges, lawyers and executioners to do their duty? We do. We empower them to do a job most ofd us don't want to do. Now, obviously, our society frowns on us taking justice into our own hands. This is because the grand majority of people are corruptible. They would (and will, and have) done wrong themselves, and vigilante justice turns bad, targeting those not worthy of death.

If it could be guaruanteed that they would never kill an innocent (if, for instance, they had Detect Evil or some other direct line to God or another incorruptible entity that was never wrong about guilt,) then what they do is right. As long as they don't stray, themselves, from the code they espouse, and they kill only the evil...what they do is right. Not legal. Right.

Right and legal are not the same thing.

Of course, being human, they *will* stray. They will screw up. That's why we have a system.

Are they right? Yes.
Will it end badly? Yes.

But all in all, I'm on their sides, and I'm not even religious.

 

[Kanegrundar]

When I watch BDS (which I love), I don't see the brothers' actions as the point of the movie. I think the deeper point is that as long as we continue to turn a blind eye to the injustices and outright evil going on we are in essence commiting the greatest evil. It's more about taking a stand than it is about vigilantism.

Kane

 

[Felix]

Pppbbbttt!!!

Well, if you don't like that, then you won't like what I have to say about Alabama hog weighing: put a hog on one end of a plank, and then pile rocks on the other end till the plank balances out. Then, guess how much the rocks weigh.

(I'm originally from Birmingham, even if I did only spend a few short and unremembered years there. Still root for the Tide though!)

/back on topic

In my opinion the movie is about the danger of such fanaticism.

Just by being fanatic does not make them wrong. It means they bear watching, and keeping track of, and make sure you can reign them in, but it doesn't necessairly mean they're wrong.

Think of it this way... assume a cause which is absolutely, unabashedly, inconvertibly RIGHT and TRUE. A person who is fanatic about this Truth is not evil only by virtue of being evil. What they do, and how they channel their energy in the pursuit of this Truth is at least, if not more, important than that they are fanatic about it.

Is the entire Raiders Nation evil because they are fanatics about their football team?

...

Ok, bad example. But you get the point. Fanaticism is a state of someone's beliefs. It is action, or inaction, which weighs on the Good/Evil scale. So examine their actions.

 

[mmadsen]

Oh, and in germany - if this was for real - they would go to prison for the rest of their pathetic lives (together with their adversaries, whom they didn't catch yet, if they get caught, that is). Armed vigilance (I think that's how it is called!?) is a crime. Murder is a crime, too. Being on a mission from god (or any other authority) is no excuse (it might save you from prison and get you locked up in a sanatory, tho).

You say that as if it wouldn't be illegal in the United States.

 

[Dakkareth]

I'm guessing that you're not a big fan of Frailty then eh Dakkareth?

Indeed, I'm not ... but now that I looked it up at imdb, I might watch it sometime Don't take me wrong, I love the movie .

What they do, and how they channel their energy in the pursuit of this Truth is at least, if not more, important than that they are fanatic about it.

Answering quote with quote as to avoid repetition.

Of course, being human, they *will* stray. They will screw up.

That's the problem. A fanatic doesn't allow anything to challenge his belief. He will deny any and all problems associated with his actions (EG killing a mafia boss hurts his innocent children and prevent him from ever finding redemption in life) and see only one aspect of a situation, where there are many. And being very fallible (as a human) and espousing a very unflexible attitude is a receipt for gross misjudgement.

IMO the 'Saints' are the bad guys even in the context of the movie. Not there's anything wrong with cheering for the them and with the bad guys triumphing ...

EDIT: 666 posts ... Muhahahahahah!

 

[Felix]

Of course, being human, they *will* stray. They will screw up.

So they should be stopped not for what they are doing, but what they are going to do?

If you're going to condemn the BDS, then do so because you think what they're doing is wrong, and not because "fanaticisim will eventually lead them to evil because they're human". Otherwise, you're talking about pre-emptory justice; arresting and punishing for something that you're pretty sure they are going to do, but you're there to stop them. See "Minority Report" for that kind of stuff.

A fanatic doesn't allow anything to challenge his belief.

I actually happen to believe that killing/raping/thieving (and the Saints are talking about the big timers here, not just Joe-stole-$5-from-roomate's-wallet) are evils. You're not going to convince me otherwise. Am I a fanatic?

killing a mafia boss hurts his innocent children

Please, run with this one. I'd like to see where you're going with it.

prevents him from ever finding redemption in life.

If redemption is something you can earn, then is it not also something that can be forfeited? They would argue that living the mafia life, with all that requires, forfeits your chance at redemption.

Remember that the Saints give petty criminal evil an opportunity to repent. But they have a line that, once crossed, damns you.

Out of curiousity Dakkareth, do you subscribe to the theory of moral relativism, or are you an absolutist?