D&D 5E The Audience - Do you feel like you're the target audience?

[Hussar]

Thank you so much, Hussar! In a strange coincidence, I was reading one of your comments today on this esteemed old thread: https://www.enworld.org/threads/dungeon-layout-map-flow-and-old-school-game-design.168563/

(Thanks to Dustyboots as well!)

Wow, thanks for the link. That really was a fantastic thread. I remember that. I miss some of those analysis threads too. @Melan used to do a bunch of them and those, along with @Quasqueton's analyses were some of my favorites.

And your ... ah crap I cannot remember the name of it... remake of Barrier Peaks was one of the first 5e modules I ran and I adored it.

 

[Parmandur]

To be fair though, there is VERY little tying GDQ together. It's very easy to ignore one or more of the modules. The adventures are more tied together by a theme rather than any actual story or plot. I mean, these modules are what, 30 pages long for all 3? There's not a whole lot of story going on there.

One of the main complaints, valid as far it goes, about the vurre t Adventure output is that the celonnnective tissue is half-baked. Because it is. Very, very easy to remove.

 

[Hussar]

One of the main complaints, valid as far it goes, about the vurre t Adventure output is that the celonnnective tissue is half-baked. Because it is. Very, very easy to remove.

Sure, but, there is connective tissue there. It is largely entirely absent in those early modules. Again, when your module is like 12 pages long, there's not a whole lot of space for anything extra.

 

[Parmandur]

Sure, but, there is connective tissue there. It is largely entirely absent in those early modules. Again, when your module is like 12 pages long, there's not a whole lot of space for anything extra.

True, it isn't nothing. But it is not much of a barrier to modularity.

 

[Smackpixi]

DMs Guild content, IMO, is often inferior to D&D content on DriveThruRPG.

Meh, I think that’s distinction guided by prejudice. The problem with both site is separating the wheat from the chaff. Or finding the needles in the haystack. even if both are loaded with needles. Like you I love MT Black’s stuff, but because DM’s guild is so vastly more popular, his stuff there is much more reviewed and stands out compared to his equally awesome stuff on Drive Thru. I much prefer DMs guild for 5e stuff because it’s got more feedback. I know both have great yet to become famous stuff, but, don’t have time myself to find it.

 

[Hussar]

True, it isn't nothing. But it is not much of a barrier to modularity.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, Dungeon of the Mad Mage is incredibly modular. Basically fifteen, sixteen more or less self contained dungeons. I've already borrowed two of them for other games. Another @M.T.Black production is Rats of Waterdeep which I absolutely adore (all the boxed text is written in the voice of one of the NPC's, a conceit that I love and when I run it, the NPC actually monologues scenes and then wonders why people look at him funny). Ghosts of Saltmarsh had a couple of adventures borrowed now - I'm currently using the Lizard folk lair from Danger at Dunwater in my Spelljammer game. One of the Candlekeep adventures featured in my Waterdeep Dragon Heist game as a side trek. On and on.

Again, thinking about it, I wonder how much of this is impacted by the fact that I only buy stuff through Fantasy Grounds. Which means everything is cross referenced and indexed. I own physical copies of the core 3, but, that's it. So when people talk about being able to play mix and match with adventure material, for me it's so easy. Drag and drop and poof, I've got an entirely new adventure, completely ready to go, in far less time than I could ever do it by hand.

 

[Bitbrain]

Reply to opening post.

They have openly declared that they see my favorite official D&D setting (Dark Sun) as problematic.

I disagree with this sentiment, but that is (and has been) a discussion for other threads on this forum.

All of which is a roundabout way of saying no. I don’t think I’m the target audience anymore. Doesn’t mean I won’t still buy those individual D&D products of their’s which interest me, though.

 

[Steampunkette]

For now? Yes.

For the most part I've spent my D&D career taking the path D&D has lead me on, more or less, rather than trying to force it to fit my particular desires. And when I come across something I don't like, I adapt the core structure to something I do like and move on.

When Ravenloft got rewritten into it's latest version I was like "Oh, those are some neat updates that help make it more 'Nightmare' and less 'Real' world with horror in it. Nifty!" and went on about my business. When I ran Curse of Strahd I played on the nightmare nature of the Dread Realm a bit more and had stuff literally change mid adventure. Like doors shifting places in ways that didn't make sense but still leading to where they were supposed to. Or cliffs appearing to 'grow' based on whether you were climbing it or had just finished climbing it.

But.

I don't know that I'll be able to do that with Dark Sun or Psionics. Those things have strong identities in me beyond Ravenloft and other settings.

But who knows? We'll see.

 

[mamba]

Indeed. The difference, however, was that most of the modules* in those quasi-paths could be split out and run standalone if one desired.

from discussions here, people often do that with the 5e books as well, except that now they have to buy all 6 or so (as they come as one hardcover), not just the 2 they are interested in running

 

[Ancalagon]

So many long interesting and revealing posts, thank you everyone for sharing. Just a FYI though, none of you are the target audience. Not cause you’re old, but because you spend hours online discussing whether or not you’re the target audience, it‘s cute you do, but says you are way to invested to be the target audience. I refer you to all the threads on here about balance for races and classes…so much debate missing the point, WoTC sees races as balanced when the people playing them are equally happy, which isn’t anything really discussed here, oddly.

The target audience for WoTC is not the people that buy every single book. It’s the people that buy a book every now and then that Appeals to them and they can run or use to supplement the game they’re running. Casuals you might call them. I feel like this gets missed in all these discussions, but WoTC is real big into not being particular or prescriptive on play. They constantly say, here is some stuff to play with, do what thou wilt…and here on EnWorld people have conniption fits about it or adore it unquestioned. Both being somewhat weird reactions WoTC doesn’t understand, which is why you’re not target audience.

You’re “supposed to” go, oh hey, I like giants, or hey, i’ve always wanted to do a wizard school, and pick up a book and take some and leave some for you’re game and move on with your life. People that do that, and then bend it for their own purpose, are actually the target audience. And they sell assloads of books to the target audiences.

This is not unique to D&D, it’s the same for every game, or movie franchise, or aquarium filter, the people super invested that spend their days discussing and debating and expecting their thoughts should be considered most important because they’re so engaged and know so much about the game/aquarium filter, they’re not the target audience and that’s why they get so pissed about not being listened to.

well... in some business models, there is such a thing known as the whale - the few individuals buying the majority of the products. Those whales are worth listening to, because they are they one buying!

In D&D, those are often the DMs...