Take the GM out of the Equation- A 3e design philosophy

[MoogleEmpMog]

The modular/adaptable thing is interesting. I've never thought of it that way.

I also think that a big part of it is my preference for d20 over D&D. Especially as a GM.

I don't particularly like "D&D" - I much prefer Conan, d20 Modern and Arcana Unearthed. What D&D I do like usually boils down to Spelljammer. The Iron Kingdoms (my favorite D&D-compatible d20 setting, insofar as any roleplaying material Privateer Press does is mechanically "compatible" with anything, including itself ) is hardly conventional.

 

[weasel fierce]

ah, then we may have been talking about separate things all along

I was mainly referring to D&D itself, as opposed to the D20 mechanic as such.

The only other D20 games I have played or seen is Star Wars, Call of Cthulhu (both of which were better with their original systems) and the Trinity stuff (and being a rabid WW fanboy, I like me some D10 )

I prefer "toolbox" sort of systems better than unified ones though.

EDIT: I've read BESM D20 as well, but thats virtually unrecognizable from D&D, and Im not enough of an anime fan, to actually run that

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

EDIT: I've read BESM D20 as well, but thats virtually unrecognizable from D&D, and Im not enough of an anime fan, to actually run that

I'd call it totally unrecognizable.

GoO doesn't put a lot of effort into compatibility, as far as I can see. And by "a lot," I mean "any at all."

It's a shame, because in theory BESM d20 could have been a great toolkit for d20 in general.

 

[Belen]

If you refer to D20 as the basic idea of "roll 1D20 and add something, then equal or beat this number" then yeah, its pretty modular. As is "roll a D6, high is good".
If you refer to D20 as the D&D game as published, then no. None of the D20 adaptations I have seen yet hav managed to actually fullfill what they needed, without making a lot of changes. Compare to say, Basic roleplaying or GURPS and see the difference in a generic system, versus a specific system adapted to be generic.

AD&D was modular because it was written in parts. Very few elements were a must to play, and each portion functioned independently.

You mention ditching the fighter and wizard classes to solve the problem, if you dont want feats and skills. Thats a pretty drastic move for D&D, considering those are propably the two most defining classes (and 2 of the 3 original ones, to boot).

If I have to actually go in and change a whole host of other things, simply because I dont want to use a particular rule, I dont think it qualifies as being a modular system.


D20 is certainly /adaptable/ which is a completely different thing, and we may have had a miscommunication there. AD&D is suited to play AD&D with. The D20 mechanic can work for a bunch of stuff.


Cheers and thanks for keeping me entertained on an otherwise boring night

Good explanation.

I prefer the d20 Modern rules myself. It tends to be less overpowered and more character focused. Midnight does the same thing for D&D-like d20.

I would be one who prefered modular games. I like to be able to insert of delete a rule without having to worry about the complex changes that could cause.

Heck, it took my old group of 7 people nearly 6 months to develop our list of house rules because of the complexity of making minor changes to D&D that potentially created huge problems in the system.

 

[maddman75]

MoogleEmpMog, I have to disagree with your division between rules and content. For many, many players, the example DC in the Skill chapter are not examples, but *rules*. If the book under Climb says the DC for climbing a brick wall is 15, then it is 15. If the DM says to roll against DC 18, then he is Wrong, and not rolling vs 15 is a House Rule.

I disagree even more that feats and spells are content rather than rules. They are individual, specialized rules that are all different from each other. D&D would get a lot simpler if they dropped the huge spell list for a skill and feat centered effects based system. This is where most of the complexities lies, truth be told.

 

[Storm Raven]

Heck, it took my old group of 7 people nearly 6 months to develop our list of house rules because of the complexity of making minor changes to D&D that potentially created huge problems in the system.

I have found it much easier to implement house rules for 3(.5)e than previous editions. The regularity of the system makes most changes relatively predictable in effect, and hence simpler to implement with the desired effect.

 

[Storm Raven]

MoogleEmpMog, I have to disagree with your division between rules and content. For many, many players, the example DC in the Skill chapter are not examples, but *rules*. If the book under Climb says the DC for climbing a brick wall is 15, then it is 15. If the DM says to roll against DC 18, then he is Wrong, and not rolling vs 15 is a House Rule.

Then the players are being silly. The DC given is 15 for a typical brick wall. This particular brick wall isn't typical. End of "argument".

 

[Henry]

Then the players are being silly. The DC given is 15 for a typical brick wall. This particular brick wall isn't typical. End of "argument".

These hypothetical players also missed the part that talks about "Miscellaneous Modifiers" and "Unfavorable conditions," as well as the Huge word "Examples" over the first table in chapter 4. I usually use those charts, but not always, and I tell the players success or failure based on their rolls; the players don't tell me if they succeeded or failed (unless the DC is obvious after two or three characters make the attempt).

 

[barsoomcore]

D&D would get a lot simpler if they dropped the huge spell list for a skill and feat centered effects based system. This is where most of the complexities lies, truth be told.

Sure, but without the huge spell list it wouldn't be D&D anymore.

Try this:

Close your eyes
Imagine you're playing a 1st-level wizard
Pretend you don't have Magic Missile



THAT'S not D&D!!!!

 

[maddman75]

Sure, but without the huge spell list it wouldn't be D&D anymore.

Try this:

Close your eyes
Imagine you're playing a 1st-level wizard
Pretend you don't have Magic Missile



THAT'S not D&D!!!!

I don't play 1st level characters. And I banned evocations.