Summon Monster I-IX Is it worth it?

[Krud]

Ok, now I've found out that I can't pick some of the better summoned monsters as a good cleric, I thought I'd ask people's opinion on the Summon Monster spell list.

What do you think are the best monster choices to summon in? Do you think Summon Monster spells are sub-optimal as an offensive spell at low levels/midlevels? Personally I feel that at high levels the creatures powers dont increase enough to deal with higher CRs of the encounters you'll be facing or are outclassed by other spells (Summon Monster IX vs Gate). Feel free to include the Summon Nature's Ally spells in this discussion.

At low levels I'm trying to find some creatures that stack up quite well in combat. A 5th level cleric can summon a Celestial Bison which can gore for 1d8+9 damage for 5 rounds. A 3rd level druid can sommon a Crocodile with a tail slap which does 1d8+6 for 3 rounds. Do you think these are good uses of a 3rd and 2nd level spell slot respectively? Do you think there's a minimum caster level at which the Summon Spells become effective due to duration? Would a lower point buy for your characters make these spells a better choice?

I'm just trying to hear other peoples experiences regarding these spells. As a cleric Summon Monster III looks like an alright offensive spell, but I'm pretty sure a wizard could find better options for the spell slot (eg fireball).

 

[green slime]

You can't just look at the damage output of the creature's available, you have to look at some of their special abilities as well. There are other uses for the spell other than mere offense. They also provide an opportunity for other character's to flank the target (providing sneak attack damage from the rogue), and occupy space, forcing the opposition to manuever around, reducing their tactical options regarding movement.

 

[Plane Sailing]

One of the unseen advantages of summon monster is that it can absorb attacks that would otherwise damage party members.

Summon Natures Ally typically has better melee damage dealers than the wiz/clr lists, but less creatures with special abilities (although they do get earlier access to elementals, which is nice).

When 3.5e removed the ability of summoned creatures to teleport they lost a lot of their versatility (Summon IV Lantern Archons used to make awesome messengers, for instance).

Elsewhere on ENworld I provided a full listing of the special abilities available via summon monster. It is considerably less in 3.5e than 3.0e (sadly), but there are still some useful abilities around. Basically it is from Summon IV onwards that you seem to start finding things that are genuinely helpful now.

Cheers

 

[Thanee]

Summoned monsters are pretty good, because while dishing out damage, they also take away some of the hear, as Plane Sailing said.

The typical combat choice for lower levels are riding dog and wolf, while the ape is very strong in the moderate levels.

Another advantage (also mentioned by PS already ) of Summon Monster is at higher level the limited spell effects you can create with the spell via spell-like abilities. Those can be useful in some situations.

The bad thing about Summon Monster is, that only really the highest level spell is truely viable at most times. It's not a spell to use in lower level slots usually. There are other spells, which are still very useful, even if they are lower level, but Summon Monster not so.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Krud]

Hmm... Some very good points. I did find the ape was one of the best options for straight combat too. I was also a bit curious about the uses of the spell like abilities. I guess a higher level summoned monster might provide a degree of versatility.

Summon Monster I is still useful for in dungeon trapspringing at least.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I find that their relative combat effectiveness is determined by the power level of the campaign. SM is better with low point buy than high point buy. The lower the average EL/CR, the better SM is for combat.

Basically it doesn't scale at all with high casting stats. A 15 point buy campaign would have more powerful summoning while a 32 point buy makes them proportionally weaker.

 

[Pickaxe]

I've seen summoners played pretty effectively in a couple of campaigns. One was a cleric 1/conjurer N with the Good domain, to squeeze an extra round from summoning celestial creatures; the same campaign had a druid as well. In another campaign, the gnome cleric uses SM all the time.

It's versatility is what makes it particularly useful. When the rest of the party was incapacitated, the gnome cleric was effectively able to summon a new party of creatures to occupy some yellow musk creeper zombies while she revived the PCs. In the first campaign, we had an encounter with some ogres on the far side of a river. The ogres tried walking across the bottom, to give themselves concealment. The druid summoned a couple of porpoises, which pounded the snot out of the ogres. Battlefield control, flanking, creating diversions, and threatening foes using ranged attacks are all good uses for SM and SNA. I still don't consider it one of the more powerful spells, but it certainly is useful.

Remember that you can summon monsters and stay invisible, and that they are not affected by spell resistance.

As far as comparing SNA and SM, the celestial/fiendish templates of SM monsters are why they are generally available later than comparable ones are for SNA. SM IV is when you see celestial creatures with DR and other meaningful abilities, and that IMO is when the discrepancy becomes at least somewhat justified. Thus, for the first three spell levels, SNA is superior.

Druids are almost certainly the best summoners, although, when you consider Augment Summoning as well, there's a pretty good balance between druids, clerics, and wizards. Wizards have the feats to invest in Augment Summoning, and they have a number of DC-based conjurations that benefit from Spell Focus (Conjuration). Druids can spontaneously summon, but they have few feats and get essentially no benefit from SF (Conj), until they get Fire Seeds, so getting Augment Summoning is costly. Clerics are somewhere in the middle; they can't spontaneously summon, but they can burn summons for cures, and they don't have to invest in putting summoning spells in spellbooks, like a wizard. Plus, they can get a little more out of celestial creatures with the Good domain. With few feats and few known spells, it's tough for a sorcerer to go the summoning route.

--Axe

 

[Bagpuss]

I tend to Summon Fiendish Monsterous Spiders after the wizard has dropped a web on the enemy, handy being a CN cleric (although the paladin keeps giving me funny looks when I do).

 

[lukelightning]

One good thing about the summon spells is that they don't count as attacks, so you can cast them while invisible.

 

[wmasters]

Druids are almost certainly the best summoners, although, when you consider Augment Summoning as well, there's a pretty good balance between druids, clerics, and wizards. Wizards have the feats to invest in Augment Summoning, and they have a number of DC-based conjurations that benefit from Spell Focus (Conjuration). Druids can spontaneously summon, but they have few feats and get essentially no benefit from SF (Conj), until they get Fire Seeds, so getting Augment Summoning is costly. Clerics are somewhere in the middle; they can't spontaneously summon, but they can burn summons for cures, and they don't have to invest in putting summoning spells in spellbooks, like a wizard. Plus, they can get a little more out of celestial creatures with the Good domain. With few feats and few known spells, it's tough for a sorcerer to go the summoning route.

Actually, I'd argue in favour of the Cleric as the best summoner. It means you can take Celestial as a language and talk to them, which adds a lot to the versatility of the spell, and which the Druid can't do. And access to the alignment domains makes the duration sufficient for a low-level caster; you've got Bless and Prayer etc to buff your new allies, and being able to spontaneously cast healing means you can often just learn Summon Monster spells with spare spell slots.

Plus, of course, you don't have to take it as one of the precious few known spells that a wizard or sorcerer does.