Staff of Power

[Terraism]

(This may belong in Rules - I'm not sure. I figure, house rules is more lenient, so I put it here.)

So, I'm trying to work up a price for a variant Staff of Power - all the non-spell abilities of a normal one, but with different spells. (Really, the issue is that I'd like to make an "Wu Jen friendly" staff. So, I figured the best bet would be to figure out the cost of all the spells in the staff, and then subtract that from the listed market price. Problem comes when - near as I can tell - the price for the spells in the staff alone work out to be nearly equal to the market price of the staff!

For a spell containing just the spells from a staff of power, market price is 202, 500 - 8,500 less than market price. Assuming the creator also has "Craft Arms & Armor," it's another 4,000 for the +2 enchantment bonus the staff carries. If not, it's 8,000 more. Assuming the former, since it's cheapest, we're now at 206,500 for the staff. 4,500 GP left. Now, abilities left to account for - a +2 luck bonus to AC and saving throws, and the double-damage Smite power. Either of those alone is worth, I think, far more than 4,500 gp. Add to that the retributive strike, and...

So, what do people think? Am I doing something wrong? Should there be a price break somewhere? Is the Staff of Power underpowered?

Here's my math, if someone's wondering how I got my numbers, but...

 		Spell Name		Level Cheaper	Price
 1st (Highest)	Globe of Invulner...	6	Yes	16,875
 2nd (2nd high)	Ray of Enfeeblement [H]	5	No	21,094
 3rd		Lightning Bolt [H]	5	No	14,063
 4th		Fireball [H] 	5	No	14,063
 5th		Wall of Force		5 	Yes	7,031
 6th		Hold Monster 	5	Yes	7,031
 7th		Cone of Cold 	5	Yes	7,031
 8th		Levitate 		2 	No	5,625
 9th		Continual Flame		2 	No	5,625
 10th		Magic Missile		1 	No	2,813

 

[Terraism]

~~BUMP~~

Could a friendly mod move this over to rules (assuming you feel that it's ok there)? I probably misjudged placing it here anyway. Thanks in advance.

 

[Terraism]

~~BUMP~~

Last time, really! But it was moved over - thanks, whomever did that! - to the second page, which doesn't do much for it's viewability. Hopefully someone will have some answers over here?

 

[Eraslin]

Double post

 

[Eraslin]

I've never actually priced out a staff before, but I'll give it a go. From the 3.5e SRD.

The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the staff—375 gp x the level of the highest-level spell x the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (281.25 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster), plus one-half of the value of any other abilities (187.5 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster). Staffs are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.

If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff. The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells.

Since the caster level of all spells in the staff have to be the same, we'll just factor that out of the equations for now.

The first thing to note is that spells that take 2 charges are put in at half price, so for our equations we'll just pretend those spells are actually spells of half their level. The spells that use 2 charges are: Globe of Invuln, Wall of Force, Hold Monster, Cone of Cold.

The highest cost spell will be the ray of enfeeblement, and the second highest is the lightning bolt. So, their cost is:

 Caster level x (375 x 5 + 281.25 x 5) = Caster level x 3281.25 gp

All the remaining spells are put in at a cost of 187.5gp times their spell level.

 Cost = Caster level x (3281.25 + 187.5 x (3 + 5 + 3 x 2.5 + 2 + 2 + 1))  gp
         = Caster level x (3281.25 + 187.5 x 20.5) gp
         = Caster level x (3281.25 + 3843.7) gp
         = Caster level x 6024.95 gp

According to the 3.5e SRD, the caster level of the Staff of Power is 15. So, that brings the cost of the spell abilities to:

 Cost = 15 x 6024.95 gp = 90374.25 gp

Leaving nearly 120,000 gp for the other abilities; which I'll leave as an exercise for someone else.

-Eraslin

 

[Terraism]

Something seemed odd here, so I did my math again - my way, and yours. Mine turned out the same. Using your method, I wasn't ending up with the same answer you did - I finally figured out why, and I'll bring it up in a moment.

The first thing to note is that spells that take 2 charges are put in at half price, so for our equations we'll just pretend those spells are actually spells of half their level. The spells that use 2 charges are: Globe of Invuln, Wall of Force, Hold Monster, Cone of Cold.

Though logically that makes sense, near as I can tell, you get different results by doing so. (Counting them as half their level ends up costing more than placing them as normal, and then just cutting half the cost of that spell. Not sure why that is, and it's too late for me to sit and figure out why.

The highest cost spell will be the ray of enfeeblement, and the second highest is the lightning bolt.

Because I didn't halve the level, I had Globe higher, but this makes just as much sense, since it's not stated which order to price spells if they are all of the same level.

Here, now, there's a problem with your math - which is why I didn't come out with the same thing, initially, as you did when working with your method. I've highlighted the lines.

  Cost = Caster level x (3281.25 + 187.5 x (3 + 5 + 3 x 2.5 + 2 + 2 + 1))  gp
          = Caster level x (3281.25 + 187.5 x 20.5) gp
[b]= Caster level x (3281.25 + 3843.7) gp
          = Caster level x 6024.95 gp[/b]

3281.25 + 3843.7 equals 7124.95, not 6024.95.

According to the 3.5e SRD, the caster level of the Staff of Power is 15. So, that brings the cost of the spell abilities to:

Cost = 15 x 6024.95 gp = 90374.25 gp

Actually, it's:

Cost = 15 x 7124.95 gp = 106,874.25 gp

So it leaves 104,125.75 - except, not. That's the construction price. Double it to get market price - 213,748.5 gp. Since, by the SRD, the market price is actually 211,000, this method actually brings it up above market price just for the spells - not for the other abilities. :S

Thanks for the try - it's a little messier than it looks, isn't it? That's why I've been having problems - especially since, without any rule for the order of placing spells in a staff, the price can be different. I imagine that "playing it safe" and going the most expensive route should be done, but...

(The problem - if I'm not being clear, and I might not be - is if, say, a staff has all fifth-level spells. Four, say. Two are reduced cost. Caster level is 10th. Do you place the half-priced ones in the first two slots, thus getting

10 x ([(375 x 5)/2] + [(281.25 x 5)/2] + [187.5 * 5 * 2]) = 35,156 gp creation cost?

Or do you place the half-priced ones second, getting

10 x ([375 x 5] + [281.25 x 5] + [187.5 * 5 * 2 / 2]) = 42,188 gp creation cost?

That's a 7k difference, and only at 10th caster level. :S Something that could use a chunk of clarification, I think.)

 

[Eraslin]

Hmm. It must be one of those items that doesn't actually follow any predetermined formula exactly. What if they priced it at the minimum caster level, but still wrote it in at caster level 15? The minimum caster level for a sixth level spell is 11, so that would give a construction cost (for the spells) of:

 Cost = 11 x 7124.95 gp = 78374.45 gp

Doubling to get the market price gives a market price of 156,748.9 gp.

That leaves just over 50k for a +2 luck bonus to saves and AC, a +2 enchantment, that smite ability, and the retributive strike.

We can probably safely treat the smite ability as another spell ability. What level would you put a spell that doubles the damage of a weapon for 1 strike? I'm thinking 1st level -- so add a fifth level spell to the staff (L1 spell quickened = L5). So, we add another 2 x 187.5 x 11 x 5 = 20,625 gp to the market value.

Total cost so far = 20,625 + 156,748.9 = 177,409.9 gp.

A +2 luck bonus to AC has a market value of 2 x 2 x 2500 = 10,000 gp.

A +2 luck bonus to saves has a market value of 2 x 2 x 2000 = 8,000 gp.

A +2 enchantment has a market value of 2 x 2 x 2000 = 8,000 gp.

Adding all that up we get a market value of 203,409.9 gp.

Leaving a pathetic 6.6k for the retributive strike.

Maybe they gave some sort of discount on the two luck bonuses because they're being placed on a weapon instead of a typical worn item. (ie: a discount because one can switch weapons easily, or be disarmed, or drop the weapon, etc -- something not as easily done with, say, a belt).

Well, that's my go at it.

-Eraslin