Spiked Chain Fighter

[holyplankton]

Last week my character bit the dust, so I get to make myself a new one for this upcoming week and I could use a little advice. I was playing a Samurai and was dealing most of the damage for our group, so that is the void I need to fill in the group dynamic again. While looking through the books and whatnot the Exotic Weapon Master stuck out to me for some reason, so I decided to build toward that.

For this campaign my DM is running a fast feat progression (new Feat every 2 levels rather than every 3) so I have some stuff to play around with. I chose the Spiked Chain as my exotic weapon of choice and am playing a fairly basic Human Fighter. I could use some help choosing feats.

The character I'm making is level 6 for the campaign at hand, so as a Human Fighter with the fast feat progression I have a total of 8 feats to play with (1 for lvl 1 character, 1 from human, 4 Fighter bonus feats, and 2 from level progression). Right now I have Exotic Weapon proficiency, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization for the Spiked Chain and Power attack as a basic melee necessity. With the other 4 feats I began working towards getting Whirlwind Attack. I figured the Spiked Chain with its ability to hit with reach and hit adjacent foes would be a nice weapon to get Whirlwind Attack with, though with the Full Plate armor I'm using I won't really be able to use the utility of the prerequisite feats as well. This is where I need some input.

Should I stick with building Whirlwind Attack? Or should I forego Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack for other feats? Thanks in advance for any input guys.

 

[Greenfield]

The spiked chain is a very versatile weapon, so much so that many people consider it cheesy.

It's a two-handed weapon, so strength bonus to damage gets bumped. At the same time it allows Weapon Finesse, in case your character has more Dex than Strength. It gives bonuses for Disarm maneuvers, and can be used for Trip as well.

As a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes seems like a natural, since melee opponents are going to provoke AoO fairly often.

When I've done such a build I've worked more on Trip and Disarm than Whirlwind. Coupled with Combat Reflexes makes the character a powerful force against creatures that try to overwhelm with numbers.

Consider tossing in a single level of Sorc or Wiz. Those will give you a Shield spell, to make up for the fact that you're specializing in a 2 handed weapon and thus can't use a shield. It also allows you Enlarge Person for 10 rounds, which magnifies the effect of the reach weapon, and grants huge bonuses to many of the combat maneuvers.

Yeah, you give up some hit points and a BAB. You get a good bump to the Will save (a fighter types Achilles' heel), a Familiar (or alternative class ability if you prefer), the Scribe Scroll feat, and Alertness (if you choose to have a Familiar). Plus you get an entire category of magic items that you can now take advantage of.

For alternative class abilities (listed in PHBII), consider becoming a Conjuration specialist and taking "Abrupt Jaunt". It's a 10 foot teleport, as an Immediate action, once per day per INT bonus point, minimum 1. Very useful.

For Familiars I'd recommend either the Hawk for the Spot bonus (Spot being cross class for Fighters) or the Raven. Both can play aerial scout, but because your caster level isn't going to go up you'll never reach the "speak with familiar" level. But a Raven can already speak one language of your choice, so send him up and use a Message cantrip (you have those now) to get reports as needed.

 

[Grogg of the North]

Combat Expertise and Improved Trip are must haves. Improved Disarm would be another option since the spiked chain gives you +2 on the disarm check.

Improved Combat Expertise (CW) will help if you need to be pure defense too.

Since you'll be tripping a lot, Prone Attack (CW) would help in case you get knocked on your butt.

Since you have reach, Combat Reflexes will help a lot too. But it sounds like you've got a low dex. If you can get a higher dex or more attacks of opportunity, then Deft Opportunist (CAdv) would help. In the same vein of using your reach for AoOs, Expert Tactician (CAdv) will help you and your friends deal damage.

 

[Dandu]

I would personally avoid a dip in Sorcerer, but if you do, that opens up the door for Dragon Disciple and Abjurant Champion. A wizard dip allows up Abjurant Champion.

Here's a spiked chain build of my own creation.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I'm not sure what exactly is available to you, so I'll give you some of the best stuff for fighters is general.

I'd probably recommend Improved Trip and Knock-down to deal extra damage and control your enemies a bit. Eventually getting Shock Trooper is a great investment especially if you can do a full attack on a charge such as through a single level dip in Barbarian by taking the Lion Spirit Totem ACF in Complete Champion. If you want Improved Trip without Combat Expertise then a second level in Barbarian for the Wolf Totem features is worthwhile. Note that the Wolf totem can be used with the Lion Spirit Totem because they replace different class features. If you want even more attacks then switching the Barbarian's Rage to Whirling Frenzy can really help dish out the damage.

If you can get to Large size then there's Knockback. It's nice on its own but it really shines with the Dungeoncrasher Fighter ACF in Dungeonscape, page 11 IIRC. Dungeoncrasher essentially lets you deal damage against an opponent if you bull rush it into an obstacle.

I'm guessing no flaws for even more feats?

You obviously won't be able to get the full package of ubertripper/bull rusher by 6, but it can be done by 10. If you'd like to explore the full setup I can do a build for you if you can provide such creation stats as point buy.

Also, Whirlwind Attack is WAY too many feats for its effect. Normally people who really need that effect use the Whirling enhancement from Magic Item Compendium, but it only works on slashing weapons. There are two other Reach+adjacent weapons (the kusari-gama from DMG 144-145 and the spinning sword from Secrets of Sarlona 136) but neither get bonuses for being used two-handed which is definitely what you want to do for damage.

 

[N'raac]

I like Combat Reflexes and Improved Disarm and Trip for the spiked chain. Buffing up DEX to add AoO's also allows medium armor with a better DEX bonus, which enhances the ability to use the prereq's for WWA.

When I ran a similar build, my character didn't go for WF or WS (so lower damage), but used Combat Expertise and Mobility/Spring Attack to maximize our Rogue's sneak attack possibilities. Move action + 1 attack at -5 for a +5 AC bonus +4 AC for mobility makes AoO's tough to land, and Spring Attack means one opponent doesn't get one at all. Sacrificing a (non-full) attack when closing to let the rogue get sneak attack damage is a pretty decent tradeoff. Combat Reflexes for those extra AoO's is also nice.

IIRC, WWA still only targets adjacent enemies. As well, one attack on each of many targets is often inferior to a full attack iteration against a single target. Against a lot of foes, Trip and/or Disarm are much more devestating than melee damage, but Trip relies on humanoid opponents and Disarm relies on their use of weapons.

 

[holyplankton]

Thanks for the input guys, it's been very helpful. Some further information: I could take a flaw or two, but I generally don't as a rule as I personally think most of them outweigh the benefit of gaining one more feat. Also we run a random roll stat sheet, so my ability scores at level 6 (with all bonuses added in) are: STR 18, DEX 13, CON 16, INT 13, WIS 7 CHA 9.

I have toyed with the idea of switching my DEX and CON scores, but I'm not sure. If I did that I would definitely take a medium armor over the Full Plate I have now. It just occurred to me now maybe to put the 18 in DEX, switch the 16 to STR and take the 13 CON, but then I feel I would have to take the Weapon Finesse feat with the chain, and I feel burdened with feats as it is.

So is the consensus that I should drop mobility and spring attack for Improved Disarm and Trip? I try not to take one level dips for power gaming purposes, as I like to have fun and be challenged, not simply rip through everything in my way (plus my DM keeps an eye out for that sort of thing and adjusts accordingly), so I'll stay away from Sorcerer/Wizard/Barbarian dips.

Also, Whirlwind Attack gives one attack to all foes within reach, not only to those adjacent to you (it usually seems that way since most people do not use reach weapons). Our team is a bit light on front line fighters at the moment, as the Rogue tends to stay at range, and we have a sorcerer and a Favored Soul who tend to hang back, it is usually just me and a monk attacking things face to face.

 

[Sunseeker]

I have to ask what your goal is with the character. Most spiked chain builds revolve around abusing trip and disarm.

What do you want your character to do? Beat face? Control the battlefield? The spiked chain fighter can do both, but depending on the order you take your feats in, will be doing one or the other first. And you won't really get the battlefield lockdown stuff until much higher level, so you need to consider how far your campaign is going and how quickly you level.

If your goal is to beat faces and occassionally control folks, there's nothing wrong with going WW route and then touching on some of the more control-oriented feats later.

If your goal is to lock enemies down, you def want the Combat Reflexes route....which honestly I feel is a must for any fighter anyway. However, either way, you're going to want DEX to be higher than you've got it, which may demand Weapon Finesse. Do you have a dedicated healer? If so, having a low con isn't that bad, but it also matters if your roll your HP or not, do you get 1/2? Rolled? Fixed? Max? If you get max HP, low con is an easy choice, even 1/2+con(with it being 1 or 2) isn't bad at all for a fighter.

So, we've laid out what you can do, but...what do YOU want to do? How do YOU want your fighter to play?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Consider tossing in a single level of Sorc or Wiz. Those will give you a Shield spell, to make up for the fact that you're specializing in a 2 handed weapon and thus can't use a shield. It also allows you Enlarge Person for 10 rounds, which magnifies the effect of the reach weapon, and grants huge bonuses to many of the combat maneuvers.

Not disagreeing- I've done the same myself with other Reach weapon wielders- but you might dip into PsyWar instead: no armor penalty at all, 3/4 BAB, bonus feat, bigger HD, and you can have Expansion.

(You could even base the PC in PsyWar, which, among other things, would let you boost Expansion one more time to get to an even LARGER size...)

 

[Dandu]

Silence, munchkin! We'll have none of your degenerate ways here!