Spelljammer [Spelljammer] Illithid to Remain "100% bad guys" -- Neogi maybe not?

[Zaukrie]

I admit not understanding why having evil slave traders in a game is bad. At least we know they're evil, so fighting them makes sense.... Like, I just don't get this. But then, I'm old and white, so maybe my experience doesn't help me here.

 

[delericho]

Maybe the Neogi are getting the Markab treatment?

They're not going to be made not-evil, they are going to be made extinct.

So, whose flying those spider-ships? Maybe their rebellious umber hulk ex-slaves?

I have a bad feeling about this...

It's Drow, isn't it? They've already repurposed those spider-ships for them once...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Maybe the Neogi are getting the Markab treatment?

They're not going to be made not-evil, they are going to be made extinct.

So, whose flying those spider-ships? Maybe their rebellious umber hulk ex-slaves?

Have we even seen any pictures of Neogi in 5E yet?

The internet seems to suggesting "no".

That would be strong support for the "extinct or MIA" theory, given we've seen pretty much everything else from Spelljammer and then some, including dear Boo and Killer Klowns From Outer Space and so on.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Have we even seen any pictures of Neogi in 5E yet?

The internet seems to suggesting "no".

They're in Volo's and Monsters of the Multiverse.

Also seem to be in the art from the free Spelljammer adventure on D&D Beyond, at least as hatchlings.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

They're in Volo's and Monsters of the Multiverse.

Oh good point, let's look what it says MotM.

Ok - in MotM the write-up/wording for Neogi is pretty similar to previous editions, except it carefully avoids using the term slavery or "property", or talking about how the Neogi abuse their mind-control, just that they think it's fine to mind-control others (does that make them any different to your average D&D party lol?). That's interesting and not great, because it suggests WotC might be trying to avoid even implying they're slavers, which means they'd be more or less impossible to discuss. Hence they might be largely excluded from 5E Spelljammer. Interestingly the Neogi mind-control ability is called Enslave, and unfortunately, because it recharges so rarely (on a rest) and only lasts 1 day, it means traditional Neogi mind-slaving would be impossible, because they'd have to spending literally all their time resting and re-casting it - and it doesn't even work well on other Neogi! (or elves, or any fey, or a bunch of other races like the duergar).

 

[Demetrios1453]

I admit not understanding why having evil slave traders in a game is bad. At least we know they're evil, so fighting them makes sense.... Like, I just don't get this. But then, I'm old and white, so maybe my experience doesn't help me here.

The OP took a quote, added a lot of supposition, and then launched this thread. There hasn't been any evidence that the neogi still aren't slavers - in fact 5e material thus far actually argues the opposite. They may indeed have changed this, but its nothing but supposition on very flimsy evidence at this point. Until the product is actually released, or they drop some actual info on this matter, I'm not sure why this is even being discussed.

 

[delericho]

They're in Volo's and Monsters of the Multiverse.

I had thought that was the case. Still, they could be mostly extinct.

Per Volos they're still slavers. I don't have MotM to check if that's changed.

 

[Reynard]

The OP took a quote, added a lot of supposition, and then launched this thread. There hasn't been any evidence that the neogi still aren't slavers - in fact 5e material thus far actually argues the opposite. They may indeed have changed this, but its nothing but supposition on very flimsy evidence at this point. Until the product is actually released, or they drop some actual info on this matter, I'm not sure why this is even being discussed.

I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I thought it was interesting that Crawford did not include neogi when asked. That's why it is being discussed -- because it is potentially interesting. I did make any claims at all, so don't paint it that way, thank you.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Oh god point, let's look what it says MotM.

Ok - in MotM the write-up/wording for Neogi is pretty similar to previous editions, except it carefully avoids using the term slavery or "property", or talking about how the Neogi abuse their mind-control, just that they think it's fine to mind-control others (does that make them any different to your average D&D party lol?). That's interesting and not great, because it suggests WotC might be trying to avoid even implying they're slavers, which means they'd be more or less impossible to discuss. Hence they might be largely excluded from 5E Spelljammer. Interestingly the Neogi mind-control ability is called Enslave, and unfortunately, because it recharges so rarely (on a rest) and only last 1 day, it means traditional Neogi mind-slaving would be impossible.

The write up for the Neogi adult mentions they have no compunctions about using their mind control abilities on others, and the actual ability in question is named "Enslave" in their statblock.

Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse

A bestiary of wondrous friends and foes for the world’s greatest roleplaying game

www.dndbeyond.com

EDIT: Ah, didn't notice that you'd edited your post...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The write up for the Neogi adult mentions they have no compunctions about using their mind control abilities on others, and the actual ability in question is named "Enslave" in their statblock.

Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse

A bestiary of wondrous friends and foes for the world’s greatest roleplaying game

www.dndbeyond.com

Yes I was just editing to note that.

However the way it works means Neogi cannot long-term mind-control any significant number of people. You'd really be looking at three at most and that would require a good degree of diligence and for them to all consistently fail their saves, which they wouldn't because the DC is only 14 so even someone with +0 WIS saves succeeds about a third of the time - and the Neogi cannot them re-cast it until it rests, so has to deal with this person running around who it just tried and failed to mind-control. I know, I know spells aren't physics, but this seems intentional.

I guess in 5E Neogi will just be jerks who will have no compunction about trying to mind-control you, which is fine but seems less compelling and less worthy of fear, especially as their mind-control is so unreliable and limited in targets.