Spell Turning and/or Absorbtion

[Patlin]

This spell perplexes me. Tell me where you disagree: (For sake of example, we're assuming you are a Wizard.)

Spell turning can work on spells that target you, even if they could or in fact do also target others.

You've just cast spell turning on yourself, and you are targetted by all five missiles from a magic missile spell. All five are turned back on the caster, and you use one level of spell turning.

If the magic missiles had been empowered, you would still only use one level of spell turning as metamagic feats other than heighten do not change the spells effective spell level, even though it uses a higher level slot.

If it had been heightened to 3rd level, it would have cost you 3 levels of spell turning.

If the enemy spellcaster had decided to target you and each of your four friends with one missile each, only the missile effecting you would be reflected, and your friends still get hit. The enemy spellcaster is targeted by only one missile. You use one level of spell turning.(Very uncertain on this one... Possibly all five missiles are deflected? Possibly the enemy spellcaster gets hit with five missiles?)

If you had absorbtion up on the last example, it would use one level of your absorbtion and gain the ability to cast a 1st level spell you have prepared without expending the preperation. This is so even though you were only hit by a fraction of the magic missiles power. Your friends, however, still take damage from the missiles that targetted them.

A horrid wilting spell would operate similarly, the only difference being it would require 8 levels rather than one from the spell turning or absorbtion (which is fine as long as you didn't roll a 1 on your d6 roll for spell levels available.)

Lets say you are the beneficiary of a Mass Heal spell. You cannot choose to drop the protection of the spell turning, so it is turned. The original caster was himself a target of the spell, and therefore benefits from it twice. All of the other targets are effected normally.

You cast a targetted spell at yourself. Spell turning doesn't come into play at all, because that would just be a bloody mess and the DM isn't willing to ponder it.

If you disagree with the paragraph immediately prior, can you cast mass cats grace to buff your party and feed your absorbtion spell at the same time?

 

[Li Shenron]

We've used Spell Turning many times before, and indeed we engaged into similar discussions.

Things which are clear from the rules: area spells, rays and touch spells are NOT turned back to the caster. This incidentally includes most healing-type spells, fortunately.

The only doubt is about a spells which have "Target: one or more creature" and are in fact used to target you and someone else. We have made our own decisions about how to handle it, but it is not 100% rules-proof: we ruled that the portion of the spell which hits you CAN be turned, while the other targets are affected normally. So if you were hit only by 1 missile, only that 1 missile would be turned back. We didn't use Absorbtion so far, but I guess that in that case you'd receive 1 full level of power.
Otherwise it could be interesting to rule that you have a % change to get that level, equal to the % portion of the spell: in this case, if 1/5 missiles hit you, you might get 20% chance of absorbing the level (80% that the magic fizzles away). However I'm not sure this would be a better ruling. After all, you're hit by 1 missile of 5, but if the caster was lower level you'd get a 100% level when hit by 1 missile of 1, so why not just absorbing the level anyway?

However, we also ruled that if the spell is beneficial then it is NOT turned, but affects you normally. We said that you can basically let a beneficial spell bypass the Spell Turning. It is a generous decision, but also allowed us to stop bothering about turning group buffs. Personally I think that it is fair enough.
In case of Absorbtion, ruling this way will prevent characters to expoit absorbing beneficial spells to turn them into other beneficial spells, like: imagine 2 PCs with Absorption, PC 1 casts Mass XYZ on PC 2 (plus other friends) and PC 2 absorbs its share, and use it to cast Mass ZXY on PC 1 (plus others), who in turn uses it to power another Mass YZX...

You cast a targetted spell at yourself. Spell turning doesn't come into play at all, because that would just be a bloody mess and the DM isn't willing to ponder it.

At least in case of ST, the "resonation effect" would happen, you'd basically have 10% of something good happening, and 90% something bad. If you rule this way, which apparently follows the RAW, you are basically telling the player "choose another spell, because ST sucks".

Absorbtion would perhaps allow to absorb your own spells (I don't remember the RAW of that spell tho) and turn them into something else, a bit like "re-preparing" them. If that's the case, it would be an ability on the edge of legit IMO, and it should be thought carefully before allowing.

 

[KarinsDad]

Things which are clear from the rules: area spells, rays and touch spells are NOT turned back to the caster. This incidentally includes most healing-type spells, fortunately.

Ray spells are not affected because they are an effect.

Touch spells are affected because they are not an effect or area, they are a target.

 

[KarinsDad]

The only doubt is about a spells which have "Target: one or more creature" and are in fact used to target you and someone else. We have made our own decisions about how to handle it, but it is not 100% rules-proof: we ruled that the portion of the spell which hits you CAN be turned, while the other targets are affected normally.

This is how you should rule it.

Spell Turning merely changes the target of the spell from you to the original caster. If there are multiple targets, it only changes the target for those portions of the spell that targeted you (e.g. if 2 out of 4 magic missiles targeted you, they now target the original caster).

 

[KarinsDad]

You cast a targetted spell at yourself. Spell turning doesn't come into play at all, because that would just be a bloody mess and the DM isn't willing to ponder it.

If you disagree with the paragraph immediately prior, can you cast mass cats grace to buff your party and feed your absorbtion spell at the same time?

Actually, I agree with everything you stated in your post except this.

In the first case, Spell Turning would turn the spell back on you. Hence, if you target yourself, you are still the target, but you lose x levels of Spell Turning doing that. The spell does not differentiate between casters. If you have Spell Turning up, do not expect to target yourself with spells or you will lose Spell Turning levels (you will still gain the benefit of the targeted spell because Spell Turning only triggers once per spell cast).

In the second case, you can buff your party and feed your Absorption spell at the same time. But, that does not really matter. Absorption is a 9th level spell. Mass Cats Grace is a 6th level spell. So, you use up most of your Absorption to absorb your portion of the Mass Cats Grace spell. Oh well.

Note: In this second case, if Absorption does not allow touch attacks like Spell Turning does (I do not have Complete Arcane in front of me), then it would not affect Mass Cats Grace. But, Absorption would still affect multi-target spells like Haste. The caster would not be affected by the Haste, Absorption would absorb it, but the rest of the allies would still be affected by the Haste.

 

[Li Shenron]

Touch spells are affected because they are not an effect or area, they are a target.

...but they are specifically excluded:

The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells.

Note that it's "touch range spells" not "ranged touch spells"

 

[KarinsDad]

Note that it's "touch range spells" not "ranged touch spells"

Actually, I had missed the sentence completely. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Patlin]

Note that it's "touch range spells" not "ranged touch spells"

Can you think of any ranged touch spells that aren't effects? I cannot, myself.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Can you think of any ranged touch spells that aren't effects? I cannot, myself.

A reach spelled Cure Light Wounds?

 

[KarinsDad]

Can you think of any ranged touch spells that aren't effects? I cannot, myself.

His point is that it will stop Cure Light Wounds (or Cats Grace, or a wide variety of spells) because that is a spell with a range of touch. He was not really commenting on any ranged touch spells, just using that to distinguish the wording.