Spell question: Crushing Despair / Good Hope?

[Queenie]

My sorcerer used to have the 4th level spell emotion. 3.5 broke it up into different spells. So here is my question. Why would the sorcerer be able to take Crushing Despair at 4th level, but NOT the spell that dispells it, Good Hope? Good Hope is a 3rd level Bard only spell. Shouldn't you be able to take a spell and it's counterspell or am I missing something?

 

[Cyraneth]

Well, since this is the Rules forum, I'd have to say no, but I really think it sounds like a sensible house rule.

- Cyraneth

 

[Kae'Yoss]

No, you don't get that spell cause it's not on your class list. Note that you get a spell that counters crushing dispair - crushing dispair.

Note that crushing despair and good hope are two totally distinct spells know. The old reverse spell rule doesn't exist any more.

 

[Queenie]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess I am a little confused with the new rules. It says under the spell description that Good Hope counters Crushing Despair.

Anyway, thanks again!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It says under the spell description that Good Hope counters Crushing Despair.

It does. But that doesn't mean that a spellcaster who has the one has to have the other. See the bladesinger: he has haste, but not slow. Sometimes one of the spells fits in the concept of a class, but the other doesn't (like the bladesinger haste example here). You don't have to give him both just because the one is an additional counterspell to the other (or even the opposite spell).

The reversible spell thing I was referring to is something that AD&D 2e (and probably earlier versions) had, but it was taken out in 3e. It meant that some spells were two spells at once, cause you could reverse the spell so it did the opposite. You would only have to learn the one spell and get both versions. In 3e, these are two different spells, like heal/harm, haste/slow, cure/inflict x wounds and so on...

 

[Shayuri]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess I am a little confused with the new rules. It says under the spell description that Good Hope counters Crushing Despair.

Anyway, thanks again!

Yar...well, the way the counterspell works is that normally -only- the exact spell you're countering will work as a counterspell.

For example, you counterspell with Fireball to nullify a hostile Fireball. That's how 90% of spells work. A few spells can be countered not only with themselves, but also with specific other spells. That only happens when the spell description specifically notes it.

So you look under Slow, and it notes that Haste counters it.

What that means is that if you see a hostile caster casting Slow, you can counter it normally, by countercasting Slow...OR you can counter it by casting Haste.

So in the case of Crushing Despair, you -always- have the option of countercasting the same spell to counter it. However, if you were a bard with Good Hope, you could also counter Crushing Despair, even though you might not have it on your list...by using Good Hope.

Hope this helped clear things up.

 

[Queenie]

Definitely did clear it up, thanks!

I guess I am just jealous as I am playing a sorcerer and I want to take Good Hope