Speaking Abyssal inherently evil?

[Ashy]

I would say nay...

 

[Khayman]

A very close paralell is the langauge of Morder in Middle Earth. Gandalf refuses to say words in the language several times, but he understands the langauge well as a scholar.

Was that because the Dark Speech was evil, because it was profane and Gandalf was a Maiar (and therefore sacred), or because the words could attract the attention of Sauron? Never really clear on that upon reading the books.

I don't think it's practical for a creature to learn a language without ever uttering it, so even celestials must speak it. (This assumes a human bias as to how celestials pick stuff up.) I agree that Abyssal would be offensive --- perhaps in some human nations its use would be prohibited, its teaching restricted, its speakers punished. Among celestials, the consequences might be more or less severe depending on your campaign's cosmology.

The Dark Tongue in BoVD is an example of an inherently evil language, a primeval collection of vile impulses given form. I'd say that Abyssal and Infernal would be pale shadows of that.

 

[Ambrus]

I'd say yes. Here's my reasoning: Demons and devils are more than simply bad people, they're the physical embodiment of the darkest evil imaginable. For them to make use of a language it would have to contain a variety of nouns, verbs and adjectives capable of fully representing the myriad sins and debasing acts they participate in and encourage in others. The closest analogy that I can imagine is a language made up entirely of the most offensive vulgarities imaginable.

Now imagine a priest or rabbi you respect speaking about despicable acts of human suffering and debasement with vulgarities that would shock a drunken sailor. Words have power; just watch one of Hitler's empassioned speeches (even if you don't understand german) to see what I mean. Simply listening to someone talk in abyssal or infernal would probably be, at the very least, distressing to a good-aligned individual. Willfully causing such distress in others would be considered an evil act in my book.

Learning the language would involve learning far more about depravity, sin and suffering than a sane person would probably ever care to know. Certaintly some celestials, clerics and paladins must go though the ordeal of learning the language so that they can better understand and oppose their enemies, but I can't imagine they'd ever feel comfortable using it. I'm not saying that speaking in Abyssal would be a big alignement violation; even good alignened characters are expected to falter from time to time. Whether a DM would consider it severe enough to deny a paladin his special powers is up for debate. Just my two coppers.

 

[Desdichado]

A very close paralell is the langauge of Morder in Middle Earth. Gandalf refuses to say words in the language several times, but he understands the langauge well as a scholar.

That's actually, not a good parallel, because he does do so at the Council of Elrond. And doing so was not an evil act; Gandalf also specifically said he would not ask anyone's pardon for using the language.

It was offensive and disturbing, but not evil. It's all in context.

As to the actual question; I'd make learning or hearing Abyssal force a Sanity check.

 

[green slime]

I don't think it's practical for a creature to learn a language without ever uttering it, so even celestials must speak it. (This assumes a human bias as to how celestials pick stuff up.)

Practical and "must" are not the same thing at all.

There are Languages that are learnt that are not spoken at all (now dead languages known only from ancient texts. Egyptian Heiroglyphs, for example. People in modern day Egypt speak Arabic).

 

[Kemrain]

Practical and "must" are not the same thing at all.

There are Languages that are learnt that are not spoken at all (now dead languages known only from ancient texts. Egyptian Heiroglyphs, for example. People in modern day Egypt speak Arabic).

Furthering this argument, I would say that no one currently knows Egyptian, they merely translate it into other languages. I doubt they'd understand much of it if they heard it spoken. Celestials can speak Abyssal, they don't merely understand it. Don't they have the Tongues ability? Explicitly saying thet they speak it should be reason enough to expect them to, on occasion.

I don't think that speaking Abyssal is Evil in any regard. Distasteful, shocking, offensive, oppressive, sure, but not Evil. In my game, Demons speak Abyssal without learning it, it just comes naturally. Automatic Language has a different meaning to immortal Outsiders than it does to mortals.

- Kemrain the [Evil].

 

[Mercule]

I don't have the MM with me, but aren't there Celestials that can speak Abyssal? If it were inherently evil, why would they speak it?

Quite correct. I was just looking at this last night. I can't recall whether it was Angels or Archons, specifically, but at least one of the two speak Abyssal.

So, I'd say that the official publications indicate quite strongly that it is not evil. If you want an "evil language", there is one in BoVD.

 

[Sejs]

*nod* what Mercule said - there is a language that is inherrantly evil. Dark Speech, from the BoVD. You need a feat just to be able to speak it.

Likewise there is its counterpart in BoED, the Words of Creation.


And Ambrus, I would personally apply the things you said more to Dark Speech than Abyssal. Dark Speech has power, whereas Abyssal is an otherwise mundane language. If Abyssal makes you evil because it contains so many details for depravity, then speaking Inuit should make you cold.

 

[Arnwyn]

Is speaking abyssal inherently evil?

Well, not IMC, but (as other posters have noted) offensive and disturbing to the extreme. People would retreat and shun such characters who spoke in such a way.

Using Dark Speech (from the BoVD), on the other hand, is evil IMC.

An act that would have mechanical consequences for a paladin, an exalted or a good cleric?

For my game, I would rule no - unless such a character made a habit of always talking in Abyssal, for whatever strange reason. Then I might consider some consequences, after re-reminding my player(s) how the campaign works.

 

[Chorn]

Another vote for the "not evil" camp. While not evil, it would definitely be a vile language full of vulgarities and words to describe profane concepts but very much devoid of words to describe "good" concepts like love. Basically like that claim that Inuits have a hundred different words for snow. There'd probably be a hundred different words for tentacle rape in Abyssal.