Sorting out costs to acquire a tiger "pet"

[aboyd]

Someone in my campaign would like to purchase a tiger as a pet. I think this is overpowered (they're level 4, the "pet" would be 6 HD, and more powerful than the druid's animal companion). However, they are in the middle of the biggest city in the world, and they have a powerful druid enclave about 15 miles outside of the city. So I don't want to say no, but I do want to price it realistically (realistically meaning look at how other similar things are priced and see if it's reasonable to match).

So, I have seen no rules for how to catch/tame/train an animal reliably, and no real pricing guide for exotic dangerous animals such as a tiger. So this is what I've pieced together from the 3.5 core rules (along with one feat from NBoF, which really doesn't have a material effect on my goal, so you can ignore that part if you wish). So here is what I'm writing to the player. Critiques, better data, anything solid appreciated.

As for using the Wondrous Pet feat to get a tiger, you are essentially asking to get a druid's animal companion, even though you are a not a druid. In fact, Ellie's animal companion is nowhere near as powerful as what you're attempting to acquire. That won't be free. Let's go through the whole process from start to finish. Note that a requirement of the feat is that you train the animal. That's step 2 onward. I think it works like this:

1. First, a wild animal must be obtained and made willing. There are three ways.
   • Someone with Wild Empathy encounters an animal (attitude: unfriendly) and spends a tense minute bleating/barking/whatever. They make a DC 40 Wild Empathy check to win the animal over (attitude: helpful). If it fails, the animal will not go with the trainer/captor and another creature must be found. If it fails with a 4 or worse, the animal attacks. Using this method requires a high-level (15+) druid or ranger.
   • Same as the previous option, but someone using the Speak with Animals spell could use Diplomacy instead of Wild Empathy. Using this method requires a level 12 (or so) bard with maxed Diplomacy, or an even higher-level druid or ranger with maxed Diplomacy.
   • Someone with no spells or Wild Empathy could capture a baby animal and use Handle Animal skill to “rear a wild animal.” This would take much more time and money (for food & shelter) but the DC is potentially easier than the other choices. But if the skill check fails, the animal remains wild and only the previous 2 options could salvage things. Using this method requires someone not high level at all, but lots of waiting and potential failures and then re-waiting again. A level 1 expert could do it with an extremely lucky roll, but would fail so often as to be unprofitable. Probably something like a level 10 expert/druid/ranger would get this done reliably and economically.
2. Next, Handle Animal is used to train the animal for an appropriate amount of tricks (3 if animal’s Intelligence is 1, or 6 tricks if the Intelligence is 2). Most DCs are online at d20srd.org, and most take 1 week each.
3. Use Wonderous Pet feat to teach the animal more tricks (3 or 6 again, depending upon animal’s Intelligence). Each additional trick still takes time as listed in the SRD.
4. Use Wonderous Pet feat to give animal extra skill points. Capped at your Handle Animal rank, and takes a week per point.
5. Use Wonderous Pet feat to give animal extra hit points. Capped at your Handle Animal rank, and takes a week per point.

So, to get a fully trained tiger, you would need an amazing druid or ranger (option a), or bard (option b), or animal tamer who already has tiger ready for you (option c). Then you need to personally train it for tricks, over a minimum of 12 weeks (if you make all your checks and if you teach it the max # of tricks). Then you would put in additional weeks to give it extra skill points and hit points. The cost for the animal’s “room & board” will incur.

Using method a or b, we're looking at paying someone very high level for spell-like effects and potentially putting themselves in harm's way. The spell tables in the PHB give us a hint that this would get costly, probably more than just a few hundred gold pieces. Using method c, we're probably looking at a few hundred gold to "stable" a creature for a year while it is reared (maybe double the costs to stable a horse as per the PHB), plus the animal trainer's pay for that year (I'm thinking of the "animal handler" as listed in the DMG but with many levels of expert, so more expensive).

The listing for the Griffon shows it's about 1500 gp to rear a baby griffon (same CR as a tiger):

Griffon :: d20srd.org

That seems roughly in line with my calculations for methods a, b, and c. So let's go with that. 1500 gold to get a tiger, untrained. Then you will have to convince the group to "fast forward" through your training, or else sit back and watch while they do stuff.​

Reasonable? Better math that could be used anywhere?

I don't usually enforce the Handle Animal checks when having a trained animal do a trained trick. However, that's typically because the druid is the only one with such creatures, and I give her the benefit of the doubt. With something this powerful (and I think, maybe still too cheap), I will expect the owner of the animal to do the Handle Animal checks for each issued command. What do you guys think of that? It follows the rules, but I don't know anyone who has ever followed that rule.

 

[Drowbane]

You seem to have it pretty well thought out. I think option c is the most likely.

Ways to get a tiger in D&D.
1) 7th lvl druid, as animal companion
2) 14th lvl ranger, as animal companion
3) 12th level druid or cleric using a FR feat (allows you to rebuke/command animals)
4) optional feat on WotC site; I don't recall the name. Basicly a leadership/cohort type thing. I imagine you'd have to be at least 7th or 8th level.

 

[frankthedm]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/224936-raising-training-owlbear-cub.html

as far as how long it takes to raise a tiger from infancy.

The cubs become independent around 18 months of age, but it is not until they are around 2–2½ years old that they leave their mother. Females reach sexual maturity at 3–4 years, whereas males reach sexual maturity at 4–5 years.

Though epic uses of handle animal have a default time listing for magical beasts of 1 year, but do note the same table lists the time for other creatures as "Varies".

Feeding the tiger while adventuring probably should not be too costly. Most sources of XP are made of meat.

Originally Posted by ValhallaGH
The track trick represents training in working with a handler to track a trail; the track feat means that the animal is skilled in hunting and tracking prey on its own. The two are not exclusive but they are not inclusive.

Even better than what I said.

• An animal handler could [try to] follow the untrained Deinonychus as it hunted a lost child.
• An animal handler could have the trained Deinonychus track the lost child with less chance of hilarious tragedy.

 

[frankthedm]

wild cohort feat Random Encounters: Wild Life - Animal Companions for Any Character

I would argue the high price for a gryphon involves quite a bit of "flight tax'' and using their price for a ground pounder is just too high. I would argue that, if a large pouncing improved grabber on the players side was not such a headache. That said, it is more honest to just say "No tigers" rather tan to price them so prohibitively.

Griffon eggs are worth 3,500 gp apiece on the open market, while young are worth 7,000 gp each. Professional trainers charge 1,500 gp to rear or train a griffon.

Undercosting animals can be a large problem to though.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/233075-how-much-trained-war-mammoth.html

Geneerally costs are supposed to go up exponentially, not laterally. Here are some sample costs I have noted for the core rules.

1 HD of guard dog costs 25 gp per hit die
2 HD of wardog cost 75 gp per hit die
2 or 3 HD of warhorse[pony] cost 50 per hit die,
4 HD of war horse cost 100gp per hit die.
3 HD of Hippogryph cost 1000gp per hit die. Training adds 1000GP
7 HD of griffon cost 1000gp per hit die. Training adds 1500GP
9 HD of flesh golem costs over 2000gp per hit die.

6 HD of war"cat" probably should be at least 200 gp per HD. Maybe 400 gp per HD might be more conservatively priced. So i would say somewhere between 1200 gp to 2400 gp might be fair. And having 660 pounds of supposedly trained killer kitty with the party should be the source of endless amusement.

And if later on the cat is proving to be too great a bargain, it might become too lazy and neurotic to be useful. I know it might be breaking the suspension of disbelief for a cat to act that way, but the potential for hilarity to have it in the party in the first place should be worth it.

 

[pawsplay]

I think the old Arms & Equipment guide might have some guidelines. Depending on geography, the tiger itself might not be all that expensive, but the training part would be. Keep in mind that animals must be specially trained if you want them attack "unnatural" foes without prompting. I would not consider a 6 HD regular old animal to be overpowered.

If they want it to be a fun pet/sidekick, then a feat is appropriate.

 

[SolosAddie]

what about rings of animal friendship or magical items boosting handle animal or diplomancy checks, then a lower level char could accomplish the same feat.

In addition, if you felt like it, the druids could barter with your player. Adventure hooks like gathering rare plants, protecting some animals as they migrate, or something, could be offered instead of paying gold.

If you as the dm want it to, it could also dovetail in with the whole group this way.

 

[Jack Simth]

You're thinking in terms of simulationism, and not in terms of game balance.

Most things in D&D scale by something ^ 2. What combat-capable critters can you purchase in Core?

Gaurd Dog (25 gp)
Riding Dog (150 gp)
Light Warhorse (150 gp)
Heavy Warhorse (400 gp)

Do note that these all come trained.

A standard Gaurd Dog is 1 hit dice, CR 1/3
A Riding Dog is 2 hit dice, CR 1
A light Warhorse is 3 hit dice, CR 1
A Heavy Warhorse is 4 hit dice, CR 2

With a little hand-waving, you're looking at roughly CR^2 * 100 gp.
the Gaurd Dog (1/3), is 1/9th 100 gp - which, tacking a small amount on, brings it from 11 to 25. A Riding Dog (CR 1) is 1*1*100 gp = 100, plus 50 gp. A light Warhorse is identically priced to the riding dog, and a heavy warhorse (CR 2) is dead-on the list. By that reckoning, a tiger (CR 4) would cost 1,600 gp, plus or minus a bit. Tack on a bit above that for the novelty (double, say - it is pretty rare), and you should be good to go.

 

[frankthedm]

Felt like doing this...

img147.imageshack.us/img147/7881/tigersampler.png

 

[aboyd]

Jack, I love that your mathematical method of divining the cost of a tiger came up with almost exactly the same cost as my method of comparing similar purchases. Thanks!

Frank, I'm printing out the tigers already. Thanks!

 

[frankthedm]

Frank, I'm printing out the tigers already. Thanks!

Glad you like them. BTW Which size do you use? Smaller scale [1"], D&D 3.0 [cavalry], 2001 Chainmail [1.5"] or D&D 3.5/4E [2"]. I'm always curious what counter size folks prefer to use. I'm confident lots of folks use 3.5/4E basing standards, but some folks might prefer other sizes.

BTW, have you stopped by the thread in my signature?