D&D (2024) Circle of the Moon Druid Fix

[mellored]

It's for all Druids. Neither my players nor I are fond of the wild shape rule that gives you more HP for becoming, say, a fly to infiltrate.

Suggestion.
Keep the 2024 THP, but you revert when you lose your THP.
That prevents oddities like an disintegrate on the fly or whatever.

I'm not following - we are using the 2024 rules but I have enhanced them as they currently suck. Currently, Moon druids can be a form of up to 1/3 their level as a CR rating - that doesn't remotely keep pace with other classes.

It does. You just need to spend some slots.

At level 3 you can cure wounds yourself.
at 5,: you can turn a spell into wild shape, and bonus action to regain 15 THP, scaling to 60THP.
At 7: you can cast fount of Moonlight for 2d6* 2 attacks damage
At 11: you get 2d8* 2 attaxks damage
At 14: you get 1d10 damage

That 4d6+4d8+1d10 on top of the base attack.
And 60THP as a bonus action.

Your not going to beat a fighter, but you are doing plenty.


As far as expanding the beast list, I expect the flying got restrictive because you now have a ranged attack in flying form. So add that mystical forms can't cast spells or similar.

 

[mellored]

A few other thoughts.

Increase the CR by spending spell slots. Say +1/2 per slot.

Make it a Barbarian subclass. Trade away all the spells for more melee damage.

 

[el-remmen]

I couldn’t read the changes in dark mode. Not a big deal (I can switch) but thought you might want to know since I think a lot of people use dark mode

 

[occam]

I'm not following - we are using the 2024 rules but I have enhanced them as they currently suck. Currently, Moon druids can be a form of up to 1/3 their level as a CR rating - that doesn't remotely keep pace with other classes.

But... that's the same as in 2014. In fact, with new features like the Druid's Primal Strike and the Moon Druid's Lunar Form, 2024 Druids were significantly upgraded in most ways relative to other classes. So is the problem really the 2024 version of Wild Shape, or Wild Shape in general?

 

[mellored]

Barbarian: Path of the Wild

3: Beast Form
The power of nature allows you to assume the form of an animal when you rage. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:

Game Statistics (same). Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the Beast's stat block, but you retain your creature type; Hit Points; Hit Point Dice; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; class features (such as Unarmed Defense) ; languages; and feats. You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature. If a skill or saving thow modifier in the Beast'stat block is higher than yours, use the one in the stat block.

No Spellcasting. You can’t cast spells or maintain concentration on spells.

Objects (same). Your ability to handle objects is determined by the form’s limbs rather than your own. In addition, you choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it's practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment based on the creature’s size and shape. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with the form. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect while you're in that form.

Rage Form: Choose 3 beasts of CR equal to half your Barbarian level that does not have a fly speed. When you rage you can turn into one of the forms.
In your rage form you keep your Strength and your proficiency bonus for to-hit. Your rage resistance, damage bonus, and other effects apply to your form.
This form last until you rage ends. When you take a long rest, you can change one of the Rage Forms you know.

Level 6:
Incognito Form: Choose 2 beasts of CR rating 1/2 or lower without flying. You can spend an action to transform into one of these beast, gaining a number of Temporary hit points equal to your the Beasts hit points. This form lasts for 1 hour, until you are out of Temporary Hit Points, or spend end it as a bonus action.
Once you use this feature you can't use it again until you take a long rest. When you gain a level you can change an Incognito Form.

Level 10:
You know one more Rage Form. You can choose flying creatures for your Rage and Incognito Forms. Your Incognito form now last for 4 hours.

Level 14:
You can use your Incognito form at-will and stay in that form indefinitely.
While in Rage Form, increase your Strength by 2 (max of 22). At barbarian level 20 it increases a max of 27.



I haven't gotten to play with it moon druid or go though the beasts yet, so this may need some tweaks.

 

[occam]

Barbarian: Path of the Beast

Side note: There's already a Path of the Beast, so a different name would probably help avoid confusion.

 

[Zawaka]

One point to note that they probably arent doing is changing the beasts prof to attack to theirs.

"You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature."

Since the new text explicitly says that you gain the beasts proficiencies (in totality) then that means that you gain proficiency with their weapons and RAW can use your own PB for attack rolls.

Natural Weapons may be an ill defined concept in 5e, but they're still an existing concept (and if beast attacks aren't considered natural weapons then they'd have to be unarmed strikes, and a PC is always proficient with unarmed strikes).

"Weapons: Anyone can wield a weapon, but proficiency makes you better at wielding it. If you have proficiency with a weapon, you add your Proficiency Bonus to attack rolls you make with it."


In adition to all this they may like to know the graper feat and monk atacks work in wildshape now.

"Unarmed Strike​

Instead of using a weapon to make a melee attack, you can use a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow. In game terms, this is an Unarmed Strike—a melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or shove a target within 5 feet of you."

A bears claws or bite for example fulfull all the conditions. They are a "similar forceful blow" and the are "a melee attack that involves part of your body to damage" (sometimes they also grapple and shove in the beast stat blocks)

 

[abirdcall]

I see these complaints a lot with casters who also have some melee abilities.

They get compared to non-casters and then the conclusion is that they are bad.

They are still full casters. Caster subclasses should never give enough abilities to keep up with non-casters because then they also have all of their spells on top of it.

Moon Druids were far too powerful in 2014. Their HP mechanic was terrible. 2/short rest they got a mountain of HP to burn through. This is much better. It does mean they no longer stand out as super powerful, and that is good.

 

[GarrettKP]

I think people are approaching Moon Druids the wrong way. You’re not suppose to be the best melee combatant in the party. You’re suppose to be able to stand in the front while you’re both attacking and slinging spells.

Sure, the Beast stats aren’t competing with a Fighter or Barbarians attacks. But Barbarians and Fighters aren’t also throwing Moon Beams and Conjure Animals around.

If you play the best combat Beasts while also using your Circle Spells, your damage is much better than 2014 Moon Druids.

 

[Belen]

Two of my campaigns have Circle of the Moon druids who have found that the new rules are definitely not fulfilling their class fantasy (being able to shift into a beast, including fantastical beast, and kick butt). I agree with them that the 2024 version is super underwhelming, and gave them this. So far, they have felt pretty balanced against same level party members. Thoughts?

Forms for Wild Shape:

General (non-combat)
Your Circle of the Moon Druid can transform into, basically, everyday animals, with a CR of 1/4 or lower. These have minimal use in fights, but can be awesome for scouting, getting into places, being pests and distractions, and can be dangerous in certain circumstances, like a venomous snake. In this form, you only have as many hit points as the animal would normally have, and if reduced to zero hit points you revert back to your regular form with any extra damage carrying over, so be careful!

Combat
These are shapes that will be more effective on the battlefield. Your Circle of the Moon Druid can transform into a real life or fantasy setting beast with a “combat rating” (CR) of up to half her level (so a CR of up to 2 at level 4, and so on). This list is not comprehensive, but I’ve tried to include a pretty representative selection.

(ugh, formatting - will try again with the table later. Basically, I added beast-like monstrosities, like owlbears and hippogriffs)

Not sure you need to fix it or just rule that some of the monsters they changed are still beasts, which may be easier. The 5.5 version already allows you to choose lesser forms like wolves etc.

Of course, you can also just stick with 5.0.