D&D (2024) So what's with 2024 and beyond?

[mamba]

Do people not remember the acrobatic marketing D&D engaged in trying to avoid Fifth Edition being called Fifth Edition? Has nobody noticed that none of your 5e D&D books have "Fifth Edition" on the cover, and wondered about that?

It's going to be Sixth Edition, whether they like it or not, and I suspect they'll still be trying the same tactic when it's time for Seventh.

Don’t really care, it is compatible with 5e, to me personally it is not even going as far as I would have liked it to go, so I have no problem with not giving it a new edition name

Wizards of the Coast can and should feel free to call their new launch of the core books whatever the Hell they want.

they are

Fans of the game are still going to call it Sixth Edition.

I am not so sure about that

 

[Mercurius]

From my experience, people mostly just call it "D&D" now. A larger percentage of players than every before have only played 5E, so to them 5E is just D&D. "4E" is like compact discs, 3E like cassette tapes, and AD&D like vinyl (OD&D...gramophone?)

But I'm sure we old-timers will squabble and debate names and editions endlessly, even as our beards grow longer and grayer as we raise our fists and yell at clouds.

 

[Clint_L]

I believe it was originally a way to avoid paying Arneson royalties for Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. The settlement didn't come till later. link

Yeah, there is a lot of confusion here.

As I recall, the basic set and AD&D were both designed to screw Arneson. TSR knew they had to pay him royalties on the rules in the basic set, as they were so closely derived from OD&D. But they reasoned that the rules were only part of the value of the set, which also included a module, dice, character sheets, and a tiny pencil (I think), so they tried to pay him only a partial royalty on each set.

And, famously, AD&D began these editions shenanigans because TSR tried to argue, in court, that AD&D was different enough to essentially be a whole new game, so Arneson was owed nothing. They lost both suits and had to work out restitution with him. I don't know what the reference to WotC paying off Arneson is about - perhaps someone can enlighten me.

 

[darjr]

Yeah, there is a lot of confusion here.

As I recall, the basic set and AD&D were both designed to screw Arneson. TSR knew they had to pay him royalties on the rules in the basic set, as they were so closely derived from OD&D. But they reasoned that the rules were only part of the value of the set, which also included a module, dice, character sheets, and a tiny pencil (I think), so they tried to pay him only a partial royalty on each set.

And, famously, AD&D began these editions shenanigans because TSR tried to argue, in court, that AD&D was different enough to essentially be a whole new game, so Arneson was owed nothing. They lost both suits and had to work out restitution with him. I don't know what the reference to WotC paying off Arneson is about - perhaps someone can enlighten me.

It’s why, early on, you could buy just the basic rulebook without the rest of the box set.

 

[Iosue]

Yeah, there is a lot of confusion here.

As I recall, the basic set and AD&D were both designed to screw Arneson. TSR knew they had to pay him royalties on the rules in the basic set, as they were so closely derived from OD&D. But they reasoned that the rules were only part of the value of the set, which also included a module, dice, character sheets, and a tiny pencil (I think), so they tried to pay him only a partial royalty on each set.

And, famously, AD&D began these editions shenanigans because TSR tried to argue, in court, that AD&D was different enough to essentially be a whole new game, so Arneson was owed nothing. They lost both suits and had to work out restitution with him. I don't know what the reference to WotC paying off Arneson is about - perhaps someone can enlighten me.

Holmes Basic, with Arneson’s name on it, predated any lawsuits. It was in fact the cause of the first lawsuit, because TSR wanted to only pay royalties on the rulebook, and not on the box set.

This lawsuit was settled without going to judgment. Arneson then sued over the Monster Manual, arguing that it was part of the D&D game. This was also settled, with Arneson getting royalties on the MM, but giving up claims to the rest of the AD&D line. This led to another lawsuit, when Arneson claimed royalties on Monster Manual II, arguing that it was a revision of the original Monster Manual. I believe this is the only suit to go to judgment, in Arneson’s favor.

It is my understanding that the split lines was less about keeping Arneson away from AD&D royalties (which the settlements already did), but because Holmes Basic sold far more than expected, so they decided to cash in on that audience. After all, if it’s just about keeping Arneson away from AD&D, then there’s no need to go beyond B/X, let alone the Mentzer redress, Companion, Master, Immortals, and Gazetteers. That’s purely from the Basic Set being TSR’s top seller from about 1980 to 1984.

As for WotC and Arneson, Arneson’s original contract with TSR was that he got half the royalties of “the game or game rules called Dungeons & Dragons.” Adkinson wanted to remove the “Advanced” from 3rd Edition. To do that and not owe Arneson (and Gygax) royalties, he had to buy out their contracts.

 

[Iosue]

Addendum to my above post. I just checked “The Game Wizards,” and the settlement gave Arneson a 2.5% royalty on the rule books in the AD&D line, not just the Monster Manual. The dispute over MM II was due to TSR initially paying royalties on it, and then attempting to stop paying those royalties, as it was not specifically noted in the settlement.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

From what it sounds like they have a full book line up for 2024 beyond the new Core Books, like they don't even count those.

 

[bedir than]

From what it sounds like they have a full book line up for 2024 beyond the new Core Books, like they don't even count those.

mothballed edition, really

 

[Parmandur]

From what it sounds like they have a full book line up for 2024 beyond the new Core Books, like they don't even count those.

I mean, they are a different thing, really. I'm excited to see what's cooking theybare on a roll.

 

[Nikosandros]

I mean, they are a different thing, really. I'm excited to see what's cooking theybare on a roll.

Well, different up to a point. The money for purchasing them is the same...