D&D 5E [SKT] Players want to 'own' Nightstone

[pukunui]

Not arguing with you because it would be cool if you could point me to some more information on the Nandars that I could use to complicate things ...

It's entirely possible WotC intended for them to be the last of the Nandars. That said, "House Nandar" crops up a few times in the novel Death Masks, which is set in Waterdeep in the 5e era, but I don't know the specifics. You can find a little bit more info on them in this free web enhancement for the 3.5e book, City of Splendors: Waterdeep. If you're playing in the 5e era, that info is now a century out of date, but it may still be of some use, especially since 5e has attempted to reset the status quo to what it was before 4e.

Under "The Nandars of Nightstone," after Lord Drezlin is killed by elves: "... Velrosa was mortally wounded when the cloud giants bombarded Nightstone, leaving the village without a lord or lady to govern it."

Earlier in that sidebar, though, it mentions that Drezlin and Velrosa were "members of House Nandar", which implies that there are others. There's no lord or lady to govern the town immediately because Drezlin and Velrosa have no children, but it's not unreasonable to think that some other member of their house might eventually take an interest in it and assume the role of ruler.

 

[TallIan]

There are a few option presented here but I thought I'd add my 2CP.

Since you mention in your post that the players are keen on base building a hard no (blow up the town, have another Nandar take over, etc) sounds like something that you don't want. It's also the easiest to do.

You could also offer them a "maybe in the future" option. eg A higher authority / the people of Nightstone decide that whoever retrieves The Nightstone can rule the town. This delays the problem until later, possibly ensuring that the PC's have access to resources that allow fast travel, so you can continue SKT and revisit this later.

Your options for a "yes right now" could be:
1)One of the PC's has a claim to the estate. This could completely derail the campaign as you take them through a game of political intrigue to out-wit the (other) Nandar's. But given how quickly levels 1 to 5 come in SKT I could see this working as a level/session or two of social RPing.
2) The PC's appoint stewards to look after their interest in town, allowing you to essentially run both in parallel (each player having an adventuring PC and a steward PC). This is obviously the most work for you, but I have always found base building to not make for good face to face sessions. Rather they are useful for springboards to some other adventure after a little maintenance at the start of each session.

I was running PotA and after the party cleared Riverguards Keep, they wanted to use that as a base, something that was a lot easier to do in PotA as the whole adventure occurs in a smallish geographical area. Sadly this didn't rally take off because I moved.

Something else you might consider, if you have a friend who would like to play but can't due to time/distance constraints, is have him run the NPC Nandar that recruits the players and allows them to conduct their business in town. This was something I did when I left home for university and my RP group stayed home. My character became an NPC that I ran via e-mail and was something between a patron of the PC;s and a steward for the manor the group captured.

Tall

 

[Stormdale]

Your options for a "yes right now" could be:
1)One of the PC's has a claim to the estate. This could completely derail the campaign as you take them through a game of political intrigue to out-wit the (other) Nandar's. But given how quickly levels 1 to 5 come in SKT I could see this working as a level/session or two of social RPing.
Tall

How could this completely derail the campaign? It's not a book or a movie with the outcome predecided, its a game that's story grows out of the actions, decisions and wishes of the people at the table, all it is doing is changing the campaign focus to something that they players want rather than railroad them along an adventure that potentially they don't want. The game should develop out of meaningful player choices and if the players choose to settle down for a while then the DM should change and adapt to that, it may only be short term thing then nudge them into the way you want them to go, otherwise it may be a long term change of focus.

I like it when the players want to settle down and develop businesses or keeps, it means they have more of a stake in my campaign world than simply being murder hobos and opens up all sorts of adventuring opportunities.

Stormdale

 

[Nagol]

If you want too run/play a sandbox, absolutely let the game go where the game goes.

If the goal is to play through a purchased adventure path like SKT, then such a philosophy runs the risk of derailing the campaign. And that can be frustrating if one of the social contracts for the game is "let's play this adventure"

 

[TallIan]

How could this completely derail the campaign? It's not a book or a movie with the outcome predecided, its a game that's story grows out of the actions, decisions and wishes of the people at the table, all it is doing is changing the campaign focus to something that they players want rather than railroad them along an adventure that potentially they don't want. The game should develop out of meaningful player choices and if the players choose to settle down for a while then the DM should change and adapt to that, it may only be short term thing then nudge them into the way you want them to go, otherwise it may be a long term change of focus.

I like it when the players want to settle down and develop businesses or keeps, it means they have more of a stake in my campaign world than simply being murder hobos and opens up all sorts of adventuring opportunities.

Stormdale

Sorry I explained that badly, ...derail the published material... would be a better way to put it. You are correct that D&D is not a book with predicated outcomes - at lest not if the DM is even slightly good - but the option I presented here would take the campaign well away from what's in the book and require a fair amount of work from the DM. He'll be planning at least a session (more IMO) to allow for the PCs to play through actually getting Nightstone.

If the DM has the time to do that great, he has some lucky players, but since job/wife/children/life all demand my time I'm not able to commit to this sort of thing. As a result the campaigns I've DMed and played in in the last 10 to 15 years haven't been able to offer this level of flexibility. I make sure the players are aware of this going in (as have the DMs I've played under), so when something like this comes up I can say to them, "Sorry but no."

I could offer this in my PotA campaign because the work required to run it was minimal (no claimants and they had just cleared out the current occupants) and gave the players an interest in the area PotA takes place in. I could not offer the same thing if I were running SKT and the players wanted Nightstone.

Tall

 

[TallIan]

Sorry double post

 

[Stormdale]

I can see your point, but sometimes it may be worthwhile to embrace their enthusiasm, even if only for a week or two and then get back on track. You are quite within your rights to say, sorry guys, that won’t fly. I don’t have time to develop it in that direction, I purchased the adventure to make my life easier and we need to follow the plot (within reason) and I’m sure they are cool with that. Other players want the adventure to be a framework they can stamp their identify on such as “hey, cool lets take over the town.”

Could be an opportunity for some basic “great x weeks of downtime while you sort out your stuff.” Tell me what are you doing/want to do? Throw in some of the complications/curve balls from the Unearthed arcana on downtime and you’ve a pretty freeform session or two. When ready to continue with the “main adventure” with the giants change the attack in rumblings to their settlement and I’m sure they’ll have more of a vested interest in pursuing that particular hook.

As I said I see this as a chance to grow the campaign and the players investment in it. Sure it is a bit more flying by the seat of your pants and may divert the adventure path for a wee bit but it is early days in the campaign and you can soon get it back on track. IMO I don’t think they are being unreasonable, so, maybe just this once, roll with it for a week and see what happens.

There is no right or wrong way to do it but sometimes going outside your comfort zone and rolling with things can be beneficial in the long term.

Whatever you do with it, good luck.

Stormdale

 

[Herobizkit]

As a graybeard (over 30 years of D&D experience), it chaffs me when 1st-5th level PC "bums" decide they want to be landowners and the players go insane when they can't do this out of the gate (the pre-gen's gate in this case). If one of them had rolled Noble background, it'd be only slightly less of an issue. As is, they said:

• at character creation: "we wanna be adventuring mercs and have few ties to the world so we can explore!"
• presented with Nightstone: "we wanna take over and use our gold to build up the town!"
• Immediately followed by: "why do we not have all the gold we need? This adventure is stingy."

To which I replied, "Perhaps you'll need to travel and find new sources of revenue."
And in response, "But we want it nooooow!" ^_^

They are impatient players, and with good reason - most games fall apart before they ever get past level 5 due to lack of interest, desire to play something new (class, race, w/e) or just plain real life gets in the way. As is, one guy's homebrew (upon which he has been working since spring) is due to start next month and now another player has voiced interest in running the Strahd pre-gen. Every time they hear 'new game' they jump up and down 'yay new characters!' and forget about the ongoing one.

All these games and not enough time... so sad.

But anyhow, my game is on temporary hiatus as I'm gearing up to move to a new city, so I expect the lack of gaming has got them all thinking about future possibilities.

 

[hastur_nz]

As a graybeard (over 30 years of D&D experience), it chaffs me when 1st-5th level PC "bums" decide they want to be landowners and the players go insane when they can't do this out of the gate (the pre-gen's gate in this case). If one of them had rolled Noble background, it'd be only slightly less of an issue.

Indeed.

They are impatient players, and with good reason - most games fall apart before they ever get past level 5 due to lack of interest, desire to play something new (class, race, w/e) or just plain real life gets in the way. As is, one guy's homebrew (upon which he has been working since spring) is due to start next month and now another player has voiced interest in running the Strahd pre-gen. Every time they hear 'new game' they jump up and down 'yay new characters!' and forget about the ongoing one.
[...]
But anyhow, my game is on temporary hiatus as I'm gearing up to move to a new city, so I expect the lack of gaming has got them all thinking about future possibilities.

And so the moral of the story is probably "do not attempt a big adventure-path style of game with these types of players". Sounds like they need more of an "adventure of the week" style of game, ala The X-Files.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

The players wanting to own Nightstone is a great development. I think it could be incorporated into SKT without breaking the adventure. Some suggestions:

- The "nightstone" that the cloud giants stole is a magical MacGuffin. Maybe it replaces the conch that grants access to the underwater storm giant lair. Maybe the Oracle wants it and the players have to return it to the Temple of the All Father. There are probably several more options I can think of off the top of my head. Regardless, the players now have to sneak into a cloud giant lair and recover it. Awesome!
- Nightstone is going to starve because the surrounding farmlands have been pillaged by the hill giants of Grudd Haug. The players have to defeat the hill giants to ensure the survival of their town.
- It just so happens that one of the teleportation circles in the network that connects the North is located in Nightstone's castle.
- There are crypts below Nightstone that have important clues and whatnot to other parts of SKT.
- To formally become rulers of Nightstone the players must petition the Lords of Waterdeep. While there, frost giants raid Waterdeep. Of course, the players get caught up in the battle. With their heroism having been clearly displayed, the Lords of Waterdeep invite them to a conclave to determine how to counter the giant threat. The players are tasked with a mission--locating the Temple of the All Father, defeating Duke Zalto, etc--which they must complete in order to be granted lordship of Nightstone.

Sounds like a great campaign to me.