Should Scimitars be finessable in 3.5?

[kreynolds]

well the tag line says it all....

Wouldn't bother me any, but it would be cool if they were.

 

[Sejs]

Yeah, I think Scimitars ought to be finessable.

Agreed, I also think they should be finessable. I mean they're basically just the slashing version of a rapier, as-is.

 

[med stud]

I dunno about that. I'm not a huge weapons-afficionado, but the concepts fo them in my mind are not anywhere near the same.

A rapier is a fencing weapon, almost exclusively for thrusting. A saber (as in "cavalry saber") is primarily a weapon used from horseback, it can be used for thrusting, but it's main damage potential comes from the single long slashing edge.

The pictures in the PHB are, unfortunately, nigh useless. I think they were drawn in the same way that the front covers of novels are gone - with at best only a passing glance at what it's actually representing.

It depends on the kind of rapier you are talking about; the rapiers used by Swedish soldiers in the 17-18th century were equally good for cutting and thrusting. These are the only rapiers I know enough about to say anything

 

[Hawkeye]

I always think of the adventuring rapier as similar to the Pappenheimer Sword-Rapier of the early to mid 17th century. It was a cut and thrust weapon used in Europe during the 30 years war. Its blade width was over an inch in width, though not much more than that. As armor became less necessary, rapiers became thinner, usually less than an inch, all the way down to small swords, the sterotypical sewing needle some think of. It is the later swords that have become ingrained in our memories as "The Rapier". Those flimsy needle like blades that we see in the early movies has set us up to think that way.

This is what I think of when I think of the D&D rapier: http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.storefront

Hawkeye

 

[bwgwl]

i don't think they should be.

i don't think equating them with rapiers is much of an argument, either -- right now, the rapier is an exception to the normal Weapon Finesse rules (usually, the weapon has to be a smaller size than the user). i don't like the idea of a second exception mucking things up. next thing you know, people will be asking if they can finesse their katanas and claymores...

[edit] let me note that i'm saying this purely from a game mechanics perspective. whether in real life a scimitar is capable of being used in that fashion is to me immaterial. if a player wants a curvy sword that he can use with the Weapon Finesse feat, i'll just tell him to get a rapier and call it a "scimitar."

 

[aurin777]

I wish I was as l337 as Drizzt

~~Brandon (with his m4d h4x0r sk1llz)

 

[LGodamus]

I sense that somebody's Drizzt clone PC isn't quite as L33T as he would like it to be.

Well it came up from the fact that I wanted my tiefling rogue to dual wield scimitars , He focuses on social skills, but I didnt want to weild the stereotypical rapier.....but that isnt really a drizzt clone........

The A&EG has this huge list of weapons that are the same mechanics wise but different names and slight cosmetically from culture to culture and I noticed that it said a sabre is mechanically the same as a scimitar.. I am not toatally familiar with fencing but I do know that sabres are used in fencing and fencing isnt exactly a style that favors brawn over precision....Now yes I did think of drizzt at this point, but only cause he is a famous scimitar user, and he doesnt exactly use brute strength either........then I thought about most arabian heroes that used scimitars ...such as Sinbad ,and they didnt exactly strike me as the brawny type either. I couldnt think of one iconic scimitar user that wouldnt be a finesse type fighter......and I couldnt see that it would be game breaking to allow it to be finessable.

 

[Cedric]

Here is a good example of a cut and thrust rapier from that same website.

http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.storefront

I don't know about the quality of their swords, but the sure look nice. I know there are a lot better smiths to be found online. But for looks and price they seem pretty attractive.

Cedric

 

[Sejs]

let me note that i'm saying this purely from a game mechanics perspective. whether in real life a scimitar is capable of being used in that fashion is to me immaterial. if a player wants a curvy sword that he can use with the Weapon Finesse feat, i'll just tell him to get a rapier and call it a "scimitar."

...../boggle.


Okay, your statements are totally contradictory here. One one hand you say that you don't care if a scimitar is equavelant to a rapier and that it shouldn't be finessable. Then you turn right around and say that if someone wants a curvy sword that he can finesse just get a rapier and call it a 'scimitar'.


They have the exact same stats. Medium size, martial weapons doing 1d6 damage, with an 18-20/x2 crit range. The sole differences are one is piercing, the other slashing, and one is finessable. If you made a curvy rapier a scimitar, what's the real difference?

As for the opening up the gates for people wanting to finesse katanas and claymores next.... horsefeathers. Neither weapon has any precident that they should be finessable. One's a bastard sword, the other is a greatsword. That's like saying you shouldn't allow an ice-damage fireball spell without having it need the Energy Substitution feat because Orcs have a vulnerability to sunlight.

 

[Tylias Quill]

I'd say it was ok if sabres were finessable. Scimitars... well, I think the idea behind finesse weapons is that they're <I>light</I> enough to use that way. The rapier is an unusually large finesse weapon, but that's probably because our usual conception of the rapier is something like the modern fencing foil, and that's what the D&D weapon seems to be trying to emulate.

But when I think "scimitar" I don't think of a medium-sized, but very light, fencing weapon; the arabian scimitar is not a light sword, by any means. And the chinese sabre or broadsword is not really a finesse weapon either. Just because you've seen a martial artist whip the thing around at great speed doesn't make it a finesse weapon - a martial artist can swing a staff at great speed, and that doesn't make a staff a finesse weapon.

I think the point behind finesse weapons is that they rely as much, if not more, on precision as cutting strength.

And quit picking on the Drizz't clones, people. Just because a character wants to dual-wield scimitars by itself does not make him a Drizz't clone... what're prospective dual-wielders to do, wield paired bastard swords or short swords all the time? Just to avoid a stereotype? I know it gets tiresome, but as long as it's not a drow ranger...