D&D 5E Shillelagh after 5th Level

[Hakon Blum]

This does not work, as when you take a cantrip through the Magic Initiate feat, your spellcasting ability for that cantrip is based on whatever class you take it for. So in this case, your spellcasting ability is always Wisdom for Shillelagh. The only way to get it to use it with charsima is by choosing Tome Pact, and gaining it as one of your bonus cantrips.

actually it does work, use pact of the tome.
this allows you to pick 3 cantrips from any class list and count them as warlock spells, meaning you now have a charisma based attack
to make up for the lack of a pact weapon simply take the green flame blade cantrip, cast shillelagh and then proceed to destroy your enemies with your flaming stick.
combine with sentinel and pole arm master feats to wreck havoc.

 

[rczarnec]

I was thinking more about an attack-bonus, like +x weapons give.

There is the Rod of the Pact Keeper that adds to both spell attack rolls and DCs, but only for Warlocks (+1/+2/+3).
There is the Wand of the War Mage that adds to spell attack rolls for any spellcaster (and can ignore half cover) (+1/+2/+3).
The Staff of Power and the Staff of the Magi both add +2 to spell attack rolls.

So, there are a handful of items that can add to spell attack rolls.

 

[Colder]

actually it does work, use pact of the tome.
this allows you to pick 3 cantrips from any class list and count them as warlock spells, meaning you now have a charisma based attack
to make up for the lack of a pact weapon simply take the green flame blade cantrip, cast shillelagh and then proceed to destroy your enemies with your flaming stick.
combine with sentinel and pole arm master feats to wreck havoc.

It doesn't seem like you read the entire post.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I added d4 damage once per round at 5th that scales up like other spell damage cantrips to help keep it competitive.

 

[Ganymede81]

Yeah, the Shillelagh cantrip is a poorly-conceived bone thrown to those that like nostalgia.

 

[cbwjm]

It's a decent enough spell. Your weapon gets boosted to d8, it counts as magical, has a duration of 1 minute with requiring concentration, and allows you to use your spellcasting modifier instead of your strength, which for a druid is likely to be far higher.

The main problem is that a druid is probably not super likely to want to be in melee and they only get a single attack anyway. I think that to truly benefit they would have to be multiclassed to pick up Extra Attack, or have a subclass that capitalised on melee which isn't the moon druid.

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[Hakon Blum]

It doesn't seem like you read the entire post.

it doesn't seem like you read all the other posts, i was replying to drag who stated a lock would not benefit from shillelagh due to it using wisdom, hence my response that pact of the tome allows you to change it to working via charisma.

 

[Hakon Blum]

It's a decent enough spell. Your weapon gets boosted to d8, it counts as magical, has a duration of 1 minute with requiring concentration, and allows you to use your spellcasting modifier instead of your strength, which for a druid is likely to be far higher.

The main problem is that a druid is probably not super likely to want to be in melee and they only get a single attack anyway. I think that to truly benefit they would have to be multiclassed to pick up Extra Attack, or have a subclass that capitalised on melee which isn't the moon druid.

Sent from my SM-G925I using EN World mobile app

combine it with green flame blade

 

[Colder]

it doesn't seem like you read all the other posts, i was replying to drag who stated a lock would not benefit from shillelagh due to it using wisdom, hence my response that pact of the tome allows you to change it to working via charisma.

But everything in that post was correct. When he said "This does not work," he was specifically talking about Magic Initiate, and then he went and suggested the very same method to get charisma shillelagh that you "corrected" him with.

This does not work, as when you take a cantrip through the Magic Initiate feat, your spellcasting ability for that cantrip is based on whatever class you take it for. So in this case, your spellcasting ability is always Wisdom for Shillelagh. The only way to get it to use it with charsima is by choosing Tome Pact, and gaining it as one of your bonus cantrips.

I mean, come on.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

It's a problematic spell. I think greenflame blade* was intended as the "here's what we should have done with shillelagh answer"--though of course they apply to different classes.

Here's how the game was designed:

1) Every (sub)class has a built in method of scaling at-will damage as they level. Examples include things like Extra Attack, Sneak Attack, Divine Strike, etc. Complex examples are classes that split it into two features, like a paladin's single Extra Attack combined with Improved Divine Smite.
2) For some subclasses this is simply easy access to a scaling cantrip, or if they want them to do more damage there is a bonus to cantrip damage like Potent Spellcasting.
3) Some subclasses provide an option that is really only melee or ranged, and other subclasses provide both options.

Mostly, this works very well, but there are 2 subclasses that I feel received overly limited options.

Because they get no weapon attack scaling and the damage of vicious mockery is horrible, I assume that Lore Bards are intended to use Additional Magical Secrets to pick up a better primary attack cantrip. The problem is, before SCAG came out those were all ranged. If you wanted your Lore Bard to be a swashbuckling 3e style bard type, you were completely unsupported by the standard rules. That is, until SCAG came out and added greenflame blade as a great option (which actually risks overshadowing Valor Bard).

Land Druid is the second one with overly limited options. They basically are ranged cantrip users (and get no damage bonus for it, which really hurts their at-will damage compared to other classes). If you want to be a Land Druid with a quarterstaff--because, you know, that's kind of a pretty popular image of a robed spellcasting druid person--you get shillelagh as a consolation prize.

Unfortunately, that's all it is. While it's great at low level, once everyone else's at-will damage starts scaling, it becomes apparent that yours doesn't.

Sure, you can finagle more damage with feats and stuff, but you'll still be bottom of the barrel relying only on shillelagh if you are the Land Druid who it was actually made for. The best use of it is actually for, say, a Nature Domain cleric, since it stacks with their attack scaling and uses their attack stat, or an Arcana Cleric who picks it up with a feat and uses it with greenflame blade, or even better, a Bard who picks up both shillelagh and greenflame blade with Additional Magical Secrets and uses them together.

So the cantrip does not fill the role that it appears on the surface it is designed to fill--hence bad design, regardless of whether or not you can find a use for it somehow.

*booming blade is an alternative, but it requires more finesse