Seastars with high AC - 5e idea?

[Cleon]

Anyhow, let's get on with the nitty-gritty of updating the Giant Ophiuroid (Brittle Star) working draft.

Let's see, you've decided you prefer the common name rather than their taxonomical name so that becomes Giant Brittle Star (Ophiuroid).

Next is type size & alignment.

While they're definitely unaligned beasts, I'm thinking they ought to be Large. Predatory Serpent Stars prey on shrimps and shellfish smaller than themselves after all, and if these monster versions follow that habit we'll want them to be bigger than a Medium humanoid so they can perceive them as prey!

i.e.:

Brittle Star, Giant (Ophiuroid)
Large beast, unaligned

What do you think?

They can still have 3 Hit Dice and be Large since there are monsters that size with lower Hit Points and HD like the 13 (2d10+2) Constrictor Snake), but most have more like the 34 (4d10+12) Brown Bear, 42 (5d10+15) Polar Bear, 39 (6d10+6) Ankheg or even the 52 (7d10+14) Giant Scorpion.

Echinoderms are pretty tough creatures that are able to survive massive injuries, so I'd aim for a low HD high CON approach to whatever target hit points we aim for. Maybe 4 HD and a +3 CON modifier like the Brown Bear?

Although I'm tempted to go for 5 HD and a +3 or +2 CON modifier plus give them a Saving Throw Proficiency in Constitution, just to mix it up a bit.

If you prefer to keep them Medium sized I'd keep them 3d8 but increase the CON mod to +2, for HD, like a Black Bear.

Any preferences?

 

[Casimir Liber]

Large size makes sense for the reasons outlined - 5HD + 15, 42 HP, 15 con and con save
The days rather than weeks for regeneration sounds reasonable - 6 (3+1d6) days??
PS: Its "Ophiuroid" not "Ophiroid"


The 3.5E octopus is interesting....

and yeah let's do the asteroid starfish as well

 

[Cleon]

Large size makes sense for the reasons outlined - 5HD + 15, 42 HP, 15 con and con save

It needs a 16 or 17 Constitution to get a +3.

The days ratehr than weeks for regeneration sounds reasonable - 6 (3+1d6) days??

Hmm, maybe.

I believe that's a lot quicker than real life Brittle Stars can repair themselves, but what the heck.

It is an unnaturally monstrous starfish, after all!

The 3.5E octopus is interesting....

Yes, the 2E version regrows arms in "two to three months" which is a lot slower than the 1d10+10 days of the 3E incarnation.

None of the other editions I could find have a tentacle-regrowth time - neither 1E or BECMI. Haven't checked 4E yet, but I doubt it'd include such a trait.

Indeed, 5E Giant Octopodes don't have anything about them regrowing lost arms in their Monster Manual entry. So we'd be justified in leave a regrowth ability out if you prefer to keep it simple, although I think it's necessary if we give them a Shed Limbs ability!

 

[Cleon]

PS: Its "Ophiuroid" not "Ophiroid"

Yeah I know, that's just a typo.

…fixed!

 

[Casimir Liber]

Yeah bumped the CON to 16.

 

[Cleon]

Yeah bumped the CON to 16.

Okay, I've put some of that in the Giant Brittle Star (Ophiuroid).

I've taken the liberty of adding the 5E Octopus's Hold Breath and Water Breathing traits, so it (a) doesn't drown in water and (b) can still crawl out on land to attack prey on beaches and the like.

We'll need to decide a duration for the Hold Breath. Maybe 1 hour like a Giant Octopus?

 

[Cleon]

Not sure about the WIS 9. That's the same as a Giant Crab, but crustaceans are considerably more complex organisms.

Well I guess Black Puddings have WIS 9 and they're even more primitive than a Starfish. Then again, most Oozes have WIS 6, suggesting we might consider WIS 7 or 8 for a Brittle Star.

I'm inclined to leave the Wisdom at 9 for the moment. We can always change it later.

What do you think?

 

[Casimir Liber]

Hold breath is great add - ? one hour sounds like a nice round number.

WIS 9 to me represents its alien brain maybe? so (like black pudding) a bit? Less easy than many beasts to control? I did think about giving it Resistance to mind-controlling magic due to its different brain

 

[Cleon]

Hold breath is great add - ? one hour sounds like a nice round number.

Sounds like we're in agreement.

WIS 9 to me represents its alien brain maybe? so (like black pudding) a bit? Less easy than many beasts to control? I did think about giving it Resistance to mind-controlling magic due to its different brain

Well Echinoderms don't really have central nervous systems per se. If I remember correctly the various "starfish" have a circular nerve that runs around the base of their arms and the rest of their nerves are distributed about their body & limbs.

They are able to learn conditioned reflexes, so they're not entirely mindless.

Anyhow, I was thinking we ought to give them some Condition Immunities to reflect their unusual biology. Maybe immunity to blinded*, charmed and deafened?

Unlike oozes, they should be subject to exhaustion and prone (starfish seem to dislike being flipped over and prioritize righting themselves).

Not sure about frightened. A brittle star or sea star will try to flee a threat which suggests a capacity to feel fear, so I guess we should leave that in.

*Regarding immunity to being blinded, while some Echinoderms have visual organs (arrays of occuli scattered about their body, simple eyes on the tips of their arms) these don't seem to be very acute. They can only see light and dark, so at best they'll detect the shadow of a predator or the like. They mainly sense their surrounding by touch and taste/smell, which is well represented by the blindsight and tremorsense you've given them.

As for deafened, I'm not even sure whether a brittle star can hear in the first place.

What else is there. Sleep? Stunned? Unconsciousness? If an ooze is subject to those in 5E I'd think an Echinoderm ought to be too.

 

[Casimir Liber]

good points - Id say immunity to blind, charm, deafening sums it up