D&D (2024) Sacred Cows: Ability Scores

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I mean, everything that could be removed, should be removed. Having less moving parts is better than having more moving parts, given the difference in end results is negligible.

Ability scores don't really do anything, so what's even the point of retaining them? Granularity is pretty much a non-thing since there's almost nothing that gives only +1 to an ability.

WotC effectively eliminated ability scores already, so I don't see any reason to not go all the way and just get rid of it completely.

Now, if they brought back B/X table or AD&D additional bonuses for high scores, retaining them would be at least justifiable.

Backwards thinking, IMO. instead I would rather see ability scores become something more.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Thinking about this some more, I'm starting to think the playtest idea of "ability mod or proficiency bonus" deserves reconsideration - if proficiency will eventually take over anyways, then ability mods matter for a while but then they don't, so the long-term impact is minimal (and the minimum viable character is just one who's proficient in the stuff they want to be proficient with.)

Because of this, you can do dang near anything with ability scores and it will work fine: racial ASIs, life-path, roll or point buy, higher or lower numbers - it'll mostly impact low-level adventurers (mostly getting slightly better attack rolls for a bit) and non-proficient skill checks, which aren't going to be major issues.

The math would need some work (topping out at a +6 mod requires completely non-scaling target numbers, and will always feel very swingy compared to the range on the die) but I think you could make a game that works this way and feels like DnD.

 

[loverdrive]

Backwards thinking, IMO. instead I would rather see ability scores become something more.

Well, I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, but with one important condition: as long, as it's really necessary. Adding stuff just for the sake of adding stuff isn't a particularly good idea.

 

[Horwath]

We should delete constitution while we are at it and merge it into stregth.

 

[Minigiant]

Because of the increased steps in ability scores, I think it wold be cool if some racial and class features are unlocked by reaching some ability score minimums. Especially with odd scores.

I think you can strip away a lot of feat-like aspects this way and make things simpler. Getting a few special features for having a warrior with STR 17, Wis 13, and Con 15.

Because while some things work well with small modifiers, some things like movement speed, carry weight, jumping, languages, vision, etc are extremely akward if you attempt to link them to modifiers.

 

[NaturalZero]

The game just does not need ability scores at this point because the core d20 mechanic makes them irrelevant. Your Initiative doesn't care about your Dex score. Your Perception doesn't care about your Wis score. Your ability to hit with a spell doesn't care about your Int score. The DC of your warlock spell doesn't depend on the Cha score. Your ability hit with a sword or roll damage doesn't depend on the actual Str score. The scores are just numbers on the sheet for nostalgia's sake that add clutter without real mechanical benefit.

But what about a few things like carrying capacity that do use the score? Just make them key off of the bonus, like 99% of the other mechanics that use abilities.

 

[Horwath]

Yeah. Why diminish Ability Scores for a new edition? Why not expand upon them? Make more things dependent on them.

because it's better to simply have one stat rather than two.

If you have ability scores and ability modifiers and score determines modifiers, while modifiers are responsible for 95% of mechanics,

Just make them responsible for 100% of mechanics. Easier than making some mixed bag where both will have some similar value.


Also if people like to roll scores, they can roll for modifiers;

(6d3 drop 2) - 8, gives the -4 to +4 spread. Same as 3-18. It is not exactly the same distribution, but it's close enough.

 

[loverdrive]

because it's better to simply have one stat rather than two.

If you have ability scores and ability modifiers and score determines modifiers, while modifiers are responsible for 95% of mechanics,

Just make them responsible for 100% of mechanics. Easier than making some mixed bag where both will have some similar value.


Also if people like to roll scores, they can roll for modifiers;

(6d3 drop 2) - 8, gives the -4 to +4 spread. Same as 3-18. It is not exactly the same distribution, but it's close enough.

Or there can be a table that is used exactly once and never used ever again ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Scott Christian]

When we get a new editions, should we dispense with ability scores and just have bonuses listed instead?
A starting stat block might instead give a +3, a +2, Two +1s, a non bonus, and a -1 for example.
Besides tradition, the only reason for ability scores that are translated into bonuses is "granularity", in which one can have odd numbered scores that don't increase the bonus, acting as a stopgap between actual mechanical increases or penalties.

Thoughts?

I would say there are a few things to consider:

• Balance
• How swingy are the mechanics (can you get the same feel latitudinally and longitudinally)
• Effectiveness of things other than +1 or +2 such as feats
• The number of skills attached to these abilities

I would also add that there needs to be alternatives instead of everyone making the exact same: randomness for players that like fate, knob turning for players that like the game of inflation, and as I stated in a previous post, a chance to let players just pick their bonuses.

I am unsure if you switch to just an array of plusses and minuses that you will get the swing (or perception of swing) or ability to knob turn. It might feel a bit more empty and hallow.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

We should delete constitution while we are at it and merge it into stregth.

Disagree, I can be strong (able to lift great weight) and have a weak constitution. I think they should remain separate