D&D 5E Running a Port

[ethandrew]

Through sheer luck and ingenuity, my PCs have sole ownership of a Keep that has a large, viable waterfront with docks. The keep is the nearest port to a large Dwarven stronghold and several agricultural communities, and the players aim to have it operated as a means of residual income. Their goal is not to run the day-to-day operations of running a keep, only to set in motion plans that will, or will not, make them fat stacks of gold. Negotiations are underway with the Dwarven merchant guild, who view this nearby port as a means to cut costs on importing and exporting. After the set-up of this port, their aim is to continue adventuring while the port maintains sustainability.

However, I am not an economist, but thankfully neither are any of the players. Assuming the positive growth of this port as a bustling hub for trade, I know there are a couple avenues available for profit, whether it's a flat rate per-ship tariff or something similar to a fee based on the percentage of value of a shipment, that way a ship full of grain versus a ship full of gold wouldn't cost the same to ship.

My issue really boils down to the fact that I can't just assume and handwave automatic success of this endeavor of my PCs. As such I feel I should potentially build in a success/failure mechanism, but what that entails I'm not certain. On a success, I would need to have some degree of profitability, whether a period of time was hugely profitable or only marginally profitable.

Seeing how I've never done this before in a campaign, I was hoping others might have experienced similar tasks in their games and would have fruitful advice. How would you run this scenario? Leave it to chance and say you made d1,000 over an X period of days?

 

[Imaculata]

I would provide the players with various plothooks/quests that have to do with their new endeavour. And the success of their port is determined by how they handle these problems. In the end Dungeons and Dragons is not Sim-port. The port should only serve as a launch vehicle for additional adventures. Think of:

-Political intrigue. (People trying to manuever themselves into an influential position at the port.)
-Trade disputes.
-Security of the trade routes. (Pirates, sea monsters, etc.)
-Crime. (Smugglers of illegal goods, murders, theft, etc.)

 

[Bradley Hindman]

If you are looking for a simple minimalist solution, the DMG's downtime rules have guidelines for running a business. They include rolls to assess the profitability of the enterprise.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think the "profitability" of the port should be based on how much of an effort the players make to take the operation off the hands of the DM. If my players told me what they wanted to do, (and there have been similar cases) how much gold they'd get would depend on if they said something like "We're just gonna roll some dice and see how things turn out." or are they going to present me with a plan? Interview candidates for Port Authority, locate reliable armed services for guards (the Dwarves in your case have a clear vested interest and may be willing to provide security services in exchange for reduced shipping tariffs), decide what sort of materials they're willing to ship. Selling slaves, weapons or information may run them afoul of the neighboring kingdoms (though the neighboring kingdoms may ask for these services privately anyway). And not to mention, if they're not participating in the day-to-day operations, them taking a not-insignificant cut may lead to insurrection.

Basically it boils down to: are the players really going to take responsibility for setting this thing up right, or are they going to just half-bake it?

When I awarded gold to play players for their Arena they set up, they presented a pretty good plan, but then I would also roll monthly if it was a good month or a bad month. 10-19 was a good month and they made the usual profit. 2-9 was a bad month, but they didn't lose anything. 1 they lost money, 20 they made double. And of course, they couldn't have the money if they didn't stop back around to pick it up.

 

[Tony Vargas]

My issue really boils down to the fact that I can't just assume and handwave automatic success of this endeavor of my PCs.

Well, you could, it depends on how much you want it to be a background thing vs a challenge vs an adventure in its own right. Setting up & running the enterprise could use Downtime Days, the more effort, the smoother & more profitable. If the conditions are at all challenging checks might be called for on many or all of those days to deal with whatever issues come up. If there are forces at work against them, there could be a lot more to it, as well, leading into actual adventures as well.

As such I feel I should potentially build in a success/failure mechanism, but what that entails I'm not certain. On a success, I would need to have some degree of profitability, whether a period of time was hugely profitable or only marginally profitable.

Shipping in the age of sail was enormously profitable, and extremely risky, and very slow. So it might be a long time before they see any income. They might be better off thinking of it like a 401k.

One question I have is whether the place had been in use as a port at all prior to the PCs securing it, and even if so, by whom?

And, if not, why not?

 

[Jacob Marley]

However, I am not an economist...

I am!

Seeing how I've never done this before in a campaign, I was hoping others might have experienced similar tasks in their games and would have fruitful advice. How would you run this scenario? Leave it to chance and say you made d1,000 over an X period of days?

The big question is how much focus do you and your players want the port to be? That's the operative question. I've done simple roll a d20+Mod against a DC, and I've done complex where the players have been active participants making multiple decisions.

The system I used that I liked best was having each player pick a role: sheriff, miller, port master, whatever. I then built a random encounter deck for each role. Each season, I'd flip over the events that would occur that the PCs would have to deal with. If they succeeded, they would get a +2 cumulative modifier to their d20 roll. If they failed, a -2 cumulative modifier. Some events the PCs could ignore and receive no bonus or penalty. Some events had time limits, others could be accomplished at their leisure. Some cards had other bonuses or penalties for the PCs, such as additional gold, help from a neighboring community, loss of someone important, et cetera. At the end of each season, they would roll against a table, adding or subtracting from their d20 roll, and that would be their income for the season.

For example, one player could be the port master. A random encounter for him/her could be sahuagin are attacking the shipping lanes nearby. Therefore, boats are avoiding your port. Find and eliminate the sahuagin threat within the next month. Success +2, Failure -2.

It's very gamist, but trying to create a simulation of a micro-economy is a fool's errand, IMHO.

Edit: Look at local and national newspapers. What is going on in the real world can easily be adapted into a D&D campaign.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=17456]ethandrew[/MENTION] Depends on how much detail you want to get into, but you may want to read up on:

RPGs with business themes

The Paradoxical Economy of D&D

 

[ethandrew]

Basically it boils down to: are the players really going to take responsibility for setting this thing up right, or are they going to just half-bake it?

So far the players have invested a good amount of time into this project. It's less them putting something on my plate and hoping I gift them gold, and more that they see this as an opportunity. They have a keep, they have a port, they might as well use it. So far they've hired a Steward, who they trust, and a Port Master, who they shouldn't trust. I mentioned the communications they've had with the Dwarves but they've also will be traveling to the local communities to see what can come from that.

It seems, from my impression, that they care and are willing to invest both game-time and game-money into making this work. However they have expressed that they do not want to spend the rest of their time managing this port of theirs.

One question I have is whether the place had been in use as a port at all prior to the PCs securing it, and even if so, by whom?

And, if not, why not?

The Port & Keep are brand spankin' new courtesy of a Throne card from the Deck of Many Things, which is another story in and of itself. The group has spent the past couple months in-real-time traveling to this Keep, designing it, and clearing it of its resident monsters; in game it's been about two weeks.

So on the one hand, this Port is untapped and filled with potential, if the PCs do the right moves. It's also open for exploitation if they trust the wrong people. For the Dwarves Merchants, one of them has expressed an interest in getting in on the ground floor, but the PCs are leery of giving that much control to someone they hardly know.

The system I used that I liked best was having each player pick a role: sheriff, miller, port master, whatever. I then built a random encounter deck for each role. Each season, I'd flip over the events that would occur that the PCs would have to deal with. If they succeeded, they would get a +2 cumulative modifier to their d20 roll. If they failed, a -2 cumulative modifier. Some events the PCs could ignore and receive no bonus or penalty. Some events had time limits, others could be accomplished at their leisure. Some cards had other bonuses or penalties for the PCs, such as additional gold, help from a neighboring community, loss of someone important, et cetera. At the end of each season, they would roll against a table, adding or subtracting from their d20 roll, and that would be their income for the season.

It's very gamist, but trying to create a simulation of a micro-economy is a fool's errand, IMHO.

This might be viable and would at least keep their hands somewhat involved in the overall success of the operations. If the timeline was spaced large enough it would give them time to do their normal adventures while still being able to return home and take care of business.

But I agree with your last line, which is why I'm here. I don't want this to turn into D&D Minutiae Economics.

 

[ethandrew]

I would provide the players with various plothooks/quests that have to do with their new endeavour. And the success of their port is determined by how they handle these problems. In the end Dungeons and Dragons is not Sim-port. The port should only serve as a launch vehicle for additional adventures. Think of:

-Political intrigue. (People trying to manuever themselves into an influential position at the port.)
-Trade disputes.
-Security of the trade routes. (Pirates, sea monsters, etc.)
-Crime. (Smugglers of illegal goods, murders, theft, etc.)

I think that's something we'll eventually get into. I don't want this to dominate their time for the rest of the campaign, but finding that balance between what's happening everywhere in the world and how it affects the players and their assets is a unique challenge. But once the players have successfully laid the ground work for their Port, there has so be some semblance of conflict every now and then. It's D&D afterall.

If you are looking for a simple minimalist solution, the DMG's downtime rules have guidelines for running a business. They include rolls to assess the profitability of the enterprise.

The problem with the DMG's downtime rules is that it doesn't scale well, as evidenced in the links [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] provided below. I don't want the running of a large port to be on the same scale of profitability as a pop-up stand on the side of a busy road.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The Port & Keep are brand spankin' new courtesy of a Throne card from the Deck of Many Things

Well, then, at least there's no negative rep to overcome. I have to wonder if the magic of the Deck created a navigable harbor or just a port where a natural harbor already existed.

If the former, it may still take a while for shipping to set a course for it. If the latter, with it close to markets, it might have been used for smuggling or something, before.

The group has spent the past couple months in-real-time traveling to this Keep, designing it, and clearing it of its resident monsters; in game it's been about two weeks.

So far the players have invested a good amount of time into this project. .. So far they've hired a Steward, who they trust, and a Port Master, who they shouldn't trust. I mentioned the communications they've had with the Dwarves but they've also will be traveling to the local communities to see what can come from that.

If they're interested in the process, not just the profits, it could be worth it to come up with something. The DMG has some sketchy rules about running a business, but they're really more for small businesses, while a port is part business, part government...

..oh, which brings up the question, who's broader lands are the Keep in? The same as the agricultural communities?

This might be viable and would at least keep their hands somewhat involved in the overall success of the operations. If the timeline was spaced large enough it would give them time to do their normal adventures while still being able to return home and take care of business.

The pace at which stuff happens with a port is probably languid compared to the pace that stuff happens to adventurers. A round-trip - a captain calling at the port, selling a cargo, picking it up, taking it to a distant shore, and returning again (or maybe following a classic 'triangular' route or something) - could take years. A simple coastal trade could be faster, but'd still likely be seasonal.

So the question 'how's the port doing' is something that could be answered over seasons and years, leaving plenty of opportunity to delve into dungeons, slay dragons, and generally foil evil in it's more concentrated forms.