Rokugan

[Gaiden]

I named the subject so broad because such a broad topic is what I am looking for.

I am a huge fan of Rokugan and all of its D20 supplements. However, there seems to be some gross errors (in need of some errata at the very least). In my online searches I have come across a few websites and even came across a forum dedicated to Rokugan. Problem is, the websites are more focused on Lot5R format and the forums are never updated. I have been waiting for over a month just to get a response to my request for membership.

Basically, what I am looking for is any resources you all can point me towards.

Specific questions that I have right now include:

How does the Shadowlands Taint work? First off there are conflicting rules in OA and Rokugan. It seems that you acquire taint points in one of 3 ways:

spontaneously - usually DM thing

creatures that can spread the taint - each creature will have a specific ability designating it as able to spread taint (usually with natural weapons or unarmed attacks - e.g. Mamono)

[As an aside, the Mamono says it spreads 1 point of taint with a failed For Save in the text but in the stat block says damage equals 2 points of taint per hit].

The last way is by traveling in the Shadowlands. A For save at base DC 10 increasing by 5 each additional day - with one point accumulated per failed save and no reset.

This all seems fairly straight forward. However, how many points can you acquire? In OA they mention that after acquiring 10 you become an NPC, wander into the Shadowlands and either become a Maho Bujin or a Maho-Tsuki. In Rokugan they have a table that lists points in the 90's. Do these tables overlap or contradict one another? Which is the right format to use. WHat are the effects of the taint? In OA it specifically states that the only in game effect is a penalty to constitution and wisdom equal to your taint mod and that all of the descriptive manifestations for the taint are for description only. In Rokugan it says that you apply your taint modifier (different than taint score) to all chr and chr based skill checks as a penalty but can apply that modifier as a bonus to str, con or dex but increase their taint score by 1 for doing so.

In OA it mentions that when a character dies in the SHadowlands, a few rounds later they raise as a zombie. What about the various other undead in OA that mention specific ways people die. Moreover, if you raise in the shadowlands as an undead creature, do you have the shadowlands type modifier? It appears that you need the shadowlands type modifier to be immune to the taint but this doesn't make sense in a lot of scenarious, especially with undead. What about gaki, ghosts, hopping vampires, pennal (whatchyamacallits), do they acquire taint when in the shadowlands and then have to adopt the Maho PrC's? What happens if a monster's advancement is not listed by character class but an increase in hit die and it goes to the shadowlands and gets a score higher than 10 using the OA? Does that at all apply if using Rokugan?

The next thing relates the Challenge ratings of many of the monsters in OA, Rokugan, Creatures of Rokugan, and Fortune and Winds. They have a unique creature that has all the abilities of a 15th level shugenja with greater hit points, MANY other special abilities including all of the oni abilities, lots of skills and feats set at CR 15. The errata for OA says that the KiRyn should be CR 29?!?! The Shinen Gaki is CR 4 with some really cool special abilities but a +4 attack once per round that is a tendril of flame - shouldn't it be a touch attack? Etc., etc., etc.

Next comes style mastery/dojo/clans/and schools. First off, in order to enter a dojo, do you have to train as one of the classes listed under the description? Moreover, which families/clans can you belong to. Take the Kakita dueling academy. Do you have to be Kakita to enter the academy? The Kakita dueling academy is the only dojo listed that trains Iaijutsu Masters. Do you have to then attend this dojo to enter the class? Many PrC are not listed at all under the dojo for their respective clans. Which feat chains grant style masteries? What are all of the different style masteries? Are there certain style masteries specific to certain clans/families/dojo/shools? Do you have to take the feat allowing you to gain a feat from another clan to gain another clan's kata? Can a member of one clan enter PrC for a different clan - is that same feat required for this? In order to take ancestor feats do you have to belong to that specific family or just the clan in general? Can you take more than one ancestor feat at 1st level?


How does the taint affect Maho characters? Do the maho tsuki get to suppress it at all? What is the relationship between the maho and the blood speakers, the kolat and the two previously mentioned groups, the goju and all 3?

Who has access to the samurai class - i.e. can non-humans gain levels in the class? Can nezumi? Naga? Tsuno?

Is there some expanded list of general spells out there such that the shugenja can actually fill up his list of 0th level spells known or do you have to use the new spells in Way of the Shugenja and Magic of Rokugan?

I could continue for pages and pages and pages. I would appreciate any and all help.

 

[Xeriar]

I named the subject so broad because such a broad topic is what I am looking for.

Yowsa!

I am a huge fan of Rokugan and all of its D20 supplements. However, there seems to be some gross errors (in need of some errata at the very least). In my online searches I have come across a few websites and even came across a forum dedicated to Rokugan. Problem is, the websites are more focused on Lot5R format and the forums are never updated. I have been waiting for over a month just to get a response to my request for membership.

I haven't been an active part of the L5R community for some time. I know there were a lot of bitter feelings flying around about the Oriental Adventures and Rokugan supplements...

Basically, what I am looking for is any resources you all can point me towards.

Specific questions that I have right now include:

No problem. I really ought to re-join the RPG mailing list...

How does the Shadowlands Taint work? First off there are conflicting rules in OA and Rokugan. It seems that you acquire taint points in one of 3 ways:

FYI, I would go with Rokugan's rules, and map, over OA where they conflict.

Especially the map, ugh.

spontaneously - usually DM thing

Think of the taint as a real bad case of cooties. In theory, someone who was tainted could spread a little to say, a lover, or by bleeding enough on them.

Sometimes items are so corrupted, they give those who use them taint points.

There are ways to reduce taint, but only an act of the fortunes, a special suicide spell, or a special nemuranai may truly eliminate taint.

Casting maho grants extreme amounts of taint as well (twice the mastery level! Holy cow!)

Note that, if one is not a maho-tsukai, getting tainted doesn't happen too often outside the shadowlands.

creatures that can spread the taint - each creature will have a specific ability designating it as able to spread taint (usually with natural weapons or unarmed attacks - e.g. Mamono)

Should. These should be pretty uncommon outside the shadowlands.

[As an aside, the Mamono says it spreads 1 point of taint with a failed For Save in the text but in the stat block says damage equals 2 points of taint per hit].

Since taint is so hard to eliminate, I'd go with the fort save one.

The last way is by traveling in the Shadowlands. A For save at base DC 10 increasing by 5 each additional day - with one point accumulated per failed save and no reset.

Jade protects you, of course, and leaving the shadowlands drops the dc to 10 again.

This all seems fairly straight forward. However, how many points can you acquire?

Ten points equal a rank. This makes -so- much more sense if you have access to the L5R RPG. Once someone's taint rank exceeds their highest ring rank (attribute pair, basically), they are corrupted, the shadowlands has them, and grants no more power.

Ten ranks should be enough for any mortal.

In OA they mention that after acquiring 10 you become an NPC, wander into the Shadowlands and either become a Maho Bujin or a Maho-Tsuki.

That's a very, very grim way to run the Shadowlands, even grimmer than it already is.

In Rokugan they have a table that lists points in the 90's. Do these tables overlap or contradict one another?

Use Rokugan's table, probably. I haven't seen it, but it's probably based on how high the character's attributes are, and maybe how many void points he can spend (part of the problem of converting between such different systems).

Which is the right format to use. WHat are the effects of the taint? In OA it specifically states that the only in game effect is a penalty to constitution and wisdom equal to your taint mod and that all of the descriptive manifestations for the taint are for description only.

The taint is like the dark side... It tempts and corrupts... Forget OA.

In Rokugan it says that you apply your taint modifier (different than taint score) to all chr and chr based skill checks as a penalty but can apply that modifier as a bonus to str, con or dex but increase their taint score by 1 for doing so.

Sounds like the best conversion, yes.
They gain one taint point, not rank, though.

In OA it mentions that when a character dies in the SHadowlands, a few rounds later they raise as a zombie. What about the various other undead in OA that mention specific ways people die.

It -should- be 24 hours, on the dot. There are other ways that people can come back as more special varients of undead than skeletons and zombies, but for the auto-raising in the shadowlands, unless Fu Leng takes an interest in the character, he returns as a mindless zombie.

It's basically a GM call. Shugenja are more valuable dead...

Moreover, if you raise in the shadowlands as an undead creature, do you have the shadowlands type modifier?

Yes... This can get confusing, though...

It appears that you need the shadowlands type modifier to be immune to the taint but this doesn't make sense in a lot of scenarious, especially with undead.

Once a character becomes a shadowlands creature, it no longer recieves taint points - Corruption does not need to waste its power on those already under its sway.

What about gaki, ghosts, hopping vampires, pennal (whatchyamacallits), do they acquire taint when in the shadowlands and then have to adopt the Maho PrC's?

Aren't pennagolan's already Shadowlands? Ahh well. There are such things as tainted ghosts, and ghosts that cannot be tainted. Ancestors can be corrupted, and attempt to corrupt their descendants...

For Rokugan, you need to distinguish between a spirit (a ghost, or an ancestor, to name a couple) and a corrupted entity.

What happens if a monster's advancement is not listed by character class but an increase in hit die and it goes to the shadowlands and gets a score higher than 10 using the OA?

OA's rules are silly.

Does that at all apply if using Rokugan?

A tainted creature is an evil, corrupted version of the original. A template may suffice, but it's one of those things... The RPG has three shadowlands books that specifically talk about what it means to have taint and be corrupted.

The focus in the L5R RPG was more role-playing over combat, and thus, such effects included many, many, many rules to make the creatures quite unique. If you want these in d20 for random creatures, you will probably have to either come up with your own, or wait until AEG produces a shadowlands-specific book.

Considering how long I, and tens of thousands of others, have waited for the Secrets of the Clans books, that may be awhile, sorry :-/

The next thing relates the Challenge ratings of many of the monsters in OA, Rokugan, Creatures of Rokugan, and Fortune and Winds.

No kidding. Especially since every Oni no Akuma spawn is supposed to be a pretty fierce fire shugenja, at that...

They have a unique creature that has all the abilities of a 15th level shugenja with greater hit points, MANY other special abilities including all of the oni abilities, lots of skills and feats set at CR 15.

No kidding... CR's are whacked all over the place, hopefully Upper Krust and others can tone it all down so they can be better assigned.

The errata for OA says that the KiRyn should be CR 29?!?! The Shinen Gaki is CR 4 with some really cool special abilities but a +4 attack once per round that is a tendril of flame - shouldn't it be a touch attack? Etc., etc., etc.

You will probably have to play this by eye, unfortunately :-(

The only advice I can give is to focus on playing the politics and other non-combat items, and assign 'CR's' for those, to help balance things out.

That should go for any campaign, really.

Next comes style mastery/dojo/clans/and schools. First off, in order to enter a dojo, do you have to train as one of the classes listed under the description?

No, but it should be either that class, or one of the classes that would be taught in such a dojo.

Keep in mind, a person typically only has -one- dojo. It's something they start their life with... Think of it as a college. People coming from multiple prestigious colleges are rare, and though a college may teach a variety of subjects within its field, it is still one field.

Moreover, which families/clans can you belong to. Take the Kakita dueling academy. Do you have to be Kakita to enter the academy?

No, but unless some political mojo is pulled, you better be a Crane.

The Kakita dueling academy is the only dojo listed that trains Iaijutsu Masters. Do you have to then attend this dojo to enter the class?

Here we get to the balance of roll playing versus role playing. If you are focusing much more on the latter in your campaign, then yes.

Typically assume, though, that a character may -study- at other dojos (with good roleplaying), but they will only truly belong to one.

Many PrC are not listed at all under the dojo for their respective clans.

I'm only really familiar with the Phoenix clan stuff. I would imagine that the various 'Secrets of the x' Clan books will begin clearing this type of thing up immensely, though.

Which feat chains grant style masteries? What are all of the different style masteries?

I don't know, sorry :-(

Are there certain style masteries specific to certain clans/families/dojo/shools?

Probably.

Do you have to take the feat allowing you to gain a feat from another clan to gain another clan's kata?

Again, probably, although I don't remember the wording of the feat... Feats in 3e are more precious than advantages/kata in L5R.

Can a member of one clan enter PrC for a different clan - is that same feat required for this?

Most definately, and I don't know if it's the same feat, but if that's the only one - a feat should be required for it.

-HOWEVER- if you choose to incorporate more role-playing, you may opt to skip the feats required, and just require good role-playing and political string-pulling or backgrounds.

In order to take ancestor feats do you have to belong to that specific family or just the clan in general?

Just the clan, and sometimes not even in that case.

Can you take more than one ancestor feat at 1st level?

My GM wouldn't in L5R, I would not have a problem with it, though.

How does the taint affect Maho characters?

Effects of taint are more mental than physical for those appropriate - Corruption is not an unthinking enemy.

They gain serious amounts of it each time they use maho. Obviously, most become absorbed in Fu Leng's will in short order.

Do the maho tsuki get to suppress it at all?

There is a maho spell in L5R that allows them to transfer taint from their next spell into a living, human target.

What is the relationship between the maho and the blood speakers, the kolat and the two previously mentioned groups, the goju and all 3?

Maho is merely a term for spells cast using the element of corruption, rather than earth, air, fire, water, or void.

The Blood Speakers are followers of a man named Iuchiban, I will write more about them if you like later. Basically, Iuchiban gained enough power that, when corrupted, he kept his own will rather than being absorbed under Fu Leng's mantle. A large organization of Maho-Tsukai ('large' being maybe one or two thousand members)

The Goju were one of the agents of Shadow, which is different than Corruption. They probably have little to do with, and little concern for/about the Blood Speakers or Corruption (they cannot cast maho, if that's what you are wondering).

The Kolat don't want supernatural influence in their world. This includes Shadow and Corruption, as well as the Fortunes. Recent events have made their lives rather difficult, but they are fundamentally opposed to Shadow and Corruption, and by extension, the Blood Speakers and Goju.

Who has access to the samurai class - i.e. can non-humans gain levels in the class? Can nezumi? Naga? Tsuno?

If a class does not require void use, anyone with the requisite intellect is -PHYSICALLY- capable of taking that class.

Some nezumi get taught by Kenku, or very tolerant humans. Same goes for naga. Don't know who would teach a Tsuno, though, stories enough are made about the first two.

Is there some expanded list of general spells out there such that the shugenja can actually fill up his list of 0th level spells known or do you have to use the new spells in Way of the Shugenja and Magic of Rokugan?

Probably. The magic system in L5R is very, very different and doesn't cross over well, unfortunately.

I could continue for pages and pages and pages. I would appreciate any and all help.

As can I. This is all from memory, don't have my books with me

 

[Xeriar]

((One bump for the original poster's sake))

 

[Deset Gled]

A brief side note about style mastery:

The list in OA (sorry, haven't read enough of the other books to know) is really short, considering all the possibilities for the concept. Another good source for them is Beyond Monks, which also has a piece about creating them on your own. The basic idea I got is that Style Masteries should be created by the player and DM discussing the fighting style that the player want to have for their character, and should allow the player to fulfill that idea in a more complete way than feats would alone (kind of like personal class ability).

 

[Gaiden]

Thanks both for your input. Still looking for more help - specifically resources.

(Barely disguised bump).

 

[Geoff Watson]

Hong's got some good stuff on his site.

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/

Geoff.

 

[Black Omega]

I named the subject so broad because such a broad topic is what I am looking for.

Though keeping in mind specific questions yield specific answers, general questions yield general confusion.

Basically, what I am looking for is any resources you all can point me towards.

Resources for what exactly though? For rules I simply go to the WotC OA forum and ignore the couple rabid anti-Rokugan people there. For storyline information I use the Miya Archives, they have all the short stories and storyline information. I just use the AEG site for their rare web enhancements, though the only errata I've seen is for the Rokugan d20 book.

How does the Shadowlands Taint work? First off there are conflicting rules in OA and Rokugan. It seems that you acquire taint points in one of 3 ways:

I agree with Xeriar, in pretty much any case where OA and Rokugan differ, go with the Rokugan book.

I would ignore 'spontaneous' tainting for the most part, but yes, it's purely GM option.

[As an aside, the Mamono says it spreads 1 point of taint with a failed For Save in the text but in the stat block says damage equals 2 points of taint per hit].

I'd go with 1. The Book of Jade for the L5R system lists the Mamono as doing two points of taint, I suspect that's where the two point reference accidently comes from. The OA errata missed this, it seems.

This all seems fairly straight forward. However, how many points can you acquire? In OA they mention that after acquiring 10 you become an NPC, wander into the Shadowlands and either become a Maho Bujin or a Maho-Tsuki. In Rokugan they have a table that lists points in the 90's. Do these tables overlap or contradict one another? Which is the right format to use. WHat are the effects of the taint? In OA it specifically states that the only in game effect is a penalty to constitution and wisdom equal to your taint mod and that all of the descriptive manifestations for the taint are for description only. In Rokugan it says that you apply your taint modifier (different than taint score) to all chr and chr based skill checks as a penalty but can apply that modifier as a bonus to str, con or dex but increase their taint score by 1 for doing so.

The two systems are incompatible, so I'd say go with the Rokugan system. It's much better thought out and doesn't doom tainted characters nearly so fast.

[/B][/QUOTE]In OA it mentions that when a character dies in the SHadowlands, a few rounds later they raise as a zombie. [/B][/QUOTE]
The Book of the Shadowlands says it's several hours. I can't find the reference to a few rounds in OA off hand, but I'm pretty sure it's longer.

What about the various other undead in OA that mention specific ways people die. Moreover, if you raise in the shadowlands as an undead creature, do you have the shadowlands type modifier?

Yes.

It appears that you need the shadowlands type modifier to be immune to the taint but this doesn't make sense in a lot of scenarious, especially with undead.

Not true, really. Both the Nezumi and Naga are both immune to the taint. And minions of the Shadow Dragon (formerly of the Lying Darkness) are immune to taint and cannot gain the Shadowlands subtype.

What about gaki, ghosts, hopping vampires, pennal (whatchyamacallits), do they acquire taint when in the shadowlands and then have to adopt the Maho PrC's?

Gaki, Ghosts and Hopping Vampires are all not Rokugan monsters, so it's up to you how they work when you bring them in. Pennaggolan's gain the Undead (shadowlands) type, judging by the example given. I'd probably make Gaki shadowlands undead, as well as the hopping vampires. Ghosts are more spirits, so they would not be shadowlands and not be immune. Even spirits can be corrupted.

What happens if a monster's advancement is not listed by character class but an increase in hit die and it goes to the shadowlands and gets a score higher than 10 using the OA? Does that at all apply if using Rokugan?

Personally, I'd just give it the Shadowlands subtype and leave it at that. Not -every- creature that falls to taint chooses maho PrC's.

The next thing relates the Challenge ratings of many of the monsters in OA, Rokugan, Creatures of Rokugan, and Fortune and Winds.

Play it by your own best judgement. Certainly some of the CR's are off.

Next comes style mastery/dojo/clans/and schools. First off, in order to enter a dojo, do you have to train as one of the classes listed under the description?

Though they don't state what the classes listed for a dojo actually means, I tend to understand that as being classes you can train in at the dojo, rather than classes you must have before hand.

Take the Kakita dueling academy. Do you have to be Kakita to enter the academy?

No, but I agree with Xeriar, you'd better be Crane or have a really good reason. And have the Different School feat, since you'll be training in another clans techniques.

The Kakita dueling academy is the only dojo listed that trains Iaijutsu Masters. Do you have to then attend this dojo to enter the class?

Since it's not listed as a requirement for this PrC, no, you don't.

Which feat chains grant style masteries? What are all of the different style masteries? Are there certain style masteries specific to certain clans/families/dojo/shools?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, style masteries are purely OA and had nothing to do with Rokugan. Thus there are no style masteries related to any of the clans or dojos.

Do you have to take the feat allowing you to gain a feat from another clan to gain another clan's kata?

No, Different School applies to clan feats. However, many clan Kata require clan feats. The section for each clans kata mentioned who might be taught these kata. some clans evidently will teach a select few outside the clan.

Can a member of one clan enter PrC for a different clan - is that same feat required for this?

Already dealt with what Different School works for. Aside from this, if you meet the requirements and can find someone of that PrC to train you, it's all good. But typically a clan will need a very good reason to teach someone from another clan such things. Certain PrC's might be more restrictive. The Witchhunter PrC states all Witchunters are from the Kuni Family of the Crab.

In order to take ancestor feats do you have to belong to that specific family or just the clan in general?

Neither. If you are a Lion and take a Scorpion ancestor feat that means somewhere in your bloodline is a little Scorpion. Maybe your great grandfather married a Bayushi.

Can you take more than one ancestor feat at 1st level?

By the rules, you can only choose one ancestor feat.

How does the taint affect Maho characters? Do the maho tsuki get to suppress it at all? What is the relationship between the maho and the blood speakers, the kolat and the two previously mentioned groups, the goju and all 3?

Taint helps them with spells, it seems. Non Maho-tsukai shugenja can cast maho spells as long as their taint is equal or greater than the level of the spell. Members of the Bloodspeaker PrC from Way of the Shugenja get a bonus to resisting the taint from the spells they cast. The Bloodspeakers practice maho but are not servents of Fu Leng. The kolat oppose maho. The Goju and Ninube don't practice maho but they do serve the Shadow Dragon and thus follow Daigotsu, lord of the Shadowlands.

Who has access to the samurai class - i.e. can non-humans gain levels in the class? Can nezumi? Naga? Tsuno?

Can non-humans? For Rokugan, that's a pretty limited list. A typical Nezumi would be unlikely to be able to follow the strict code of honor. Naga as part of the Akasha likely would not follow what they consider a silly mammal code. But straight from the Creatures of Rokugan, a Tsuno's favored class is samurai. Kenku also have samurai listed as their favored class. The key prerequisite is being able to follow the strict code.

Is there some expanded list of general spells out there such that the shugenja can actually fill up his list of 0th level spells known or do you have to use the new spells in Way of the Shugenja and Magic of Rokugan?

Magic of Rokugan lists all spells up to that point. After that, you need the books to complete the list. I've not seen a master list yet.

I could continue for pages and pages and pages. I would appreciate any and all help.

Happy to be whatever small help I can be.