Robert E. Howard's Conan AMA With Jason Durall & Chris Lites

[modiphius]

I just can't justify the price at this point. I'm getting a the core print book of 7th Sea and ALL the unlocked PDFs for a few dollars less ($40) than the lowest price to just get the core print book of Conan. I would have to spend almost $90 to do the same with Conan. It's no wonder the 7th Sea Kickstarter is over a million dollars right now.

Since the core Conan book doesn't appear to have much of the magic stuff, I wouldn't really have the option to just pledge for the core book without the Book of Skelos. The only reason I would shift over to using their house mechanics is if magic worked very differently than it does elsewhere and wasn't all memorized-spell-based. Since magic in Howard's stories is very different than what you find in a lot of fantasy, that's the part that would make the game special. If I just wanted a sourcebook, I would just go back to the original stories and other sources of information and stick with Barbarians of Lemuria or Savage Worlds for the ruleset.

EDIT: I meant to refer to the $60 level of 7th Sea, not the $40 level. My bad.

actually it includes a lot of magic Answered above though I believe

And here's those two mental pledges that now get you all the books in print for 2 years. Basically as we unlock them now, they move in to the Kickstarter 3 waves of delivery. More info here.

Something to inspire you! Here's the Tom Grindberg cover for Conan the Pirate (we're slowly getting in all the cover arts)

 

[Psikerlord#]

Having watched multiple playthroughs, listened to multiple playthroughs, read multiple playthroughs, and engaged in two playthroughs with 8 different players I can say that what you suggest happens with 'players thinking they're being picked on' hasn't happened even a single time. It hasn't even been hinted at. Nor has there been any commentary on doom pool mechanics being a detriment to player decision making.

Even though you and I went through this step-by-step in the other thread, these negatives you insist are relevant drawbacks to the system are figments of your imagination and are representations of poor gameplay practices/styles that can and would affect any game using any system if you're playing with someone intentionally trying to abuse other players (i.e. if a GM wants to punish a player because they're an asshat GM, they don't need 2D20 to do it). For everyone else, they work great, and lend to narrative, not detract from it..

I would much rather Modiphius spent their time enhancing what is already a really solid system than making alt rules and PDF downloads to support Water Bob.

This game is for everyone else, but it is clearly not for you. Please move on.

I have to say I am thankful for Water Bob's concern and raising it. I had not thought of it myself, but I can see how in some groups this could be an issue. An alternative rule that doesn't use accumulated Doom would be very useful for such a group. A good suggestion I think.

 

[moldyderp]

I have to say I am thankful for Water Bob's concern and raising it. I had not thought of it myself, but I can see how in some groups this could be an issue. An alternative rule that doesn't use accumulated Doom would be very useful for such a group. A good suggestion I think.

It's beyond having a concern and raising it. It's beating it into the ground to the point of getting threads closed and being banned from forums. The mechanics don't mesh with what he wants. He knows this. That's not going to change, and it shouldn't. At that point, it's time to move on.

Nevermind that the "problems" he lists have not reared their heads in *any* playthroughs with *any* groups. The playtest has been downloaded 5,000 times or so? Maybe more? If these issues were as overt as he claims them you would hear about it. Like you, I initially thought his "issues" had some ground to stand on, but they don't.

I won't say any more about it other than players don't play the way he says they do. GMs don't act/react the way he says they do. The game doesn't play the way he says it does. None of these things he presents as "problems" actually exist.

 

[Water Bob]

Something to inspire you! Here's the Tom Grindberg cover for Conan the Pirate (we're slowly getting in all the cover arts)

Man, I will say that this game has A LOT of good looking art. That piece is gorgeous!

 

[Water Bob]

Nevermind that the "problems" he lists have not reared their heads in *any* playthroughs with *any* groups. The playtest has been downloaded 5,000 times or so? Maybe more? If these issues were as overt as he claims them you would hear about it. Like you, I initially thought his "issues" had some ground to stand on, but they don't.

I won't say any more about it other than players don't play the way he says they do. GMs don't act/react the way he says they do. The game doesn't play the way he says it does. None of these things he presents as "problems" actually exist.

You write as if you are all knowing--know how every group plays and how everyone in the world thinks of the 2d20 System. But, really, isn't your comments just based on your own biased (pro-2d20) opinion?

Just use a little google and start to look at the play reports coming out.

Here's one from two weeks ago: Clicky, clicky.

There is a very fair write-up of the system. The reviewer likes some aspects of the game and really dislikes others. In the end, he rates the dislikes higher than the likes and decides to....

Like my players, I think the nuts and bolts of the weapons, armor, effects are cool, but again, I agree they don't beat RQ6/Mythras.

So, in the end, I think I probably will do the all-PDF option for this thing, simply for the adventures, and the setting info. I don't know if after more rules come out, the combat will be cool enough to get over the annoying aspects, but it could be a casual game every once in a while, but I don't see it filling the niche of our regular roleplaying sessions, it's not that type of game.

One of the things he says I mention above (and you say "will never happen"), and that is what he calls adversarial aspect to the Doom Pool....

Adversarial Aspect - Yeah, I admit, this really wasn’t one of my criticisms, but it was pretty adversarial, but, my players are the type that actually took that as a challenge. They trust me not to cheat them. As I said in another thread. Pull no Punches is how I roll, so they’re used to Evil NPCs being Evil, and Brutal threats being Brutal.

Taking this a step further, there are groups out there where players will think that the Ref is playing against them because of the choices he makes in his use of the Doom Pool.

If a player's character is killed or somehow effected otherwise through the use of the Doom Pool, it's natural to think, "Why did the Ref choose NOW to play those points? Why not when player X did this, or player Y did that? Why me?"





About the Doom Pool and Momentum points specifically, he says....

Doom, Momentum and Fortune - This didn’t bother them as much as they would have expected, but they did admit they were thinking about the metagame, the “should I buy dice or not, knowing it’s going to be used against me later”. Since the metagame thinking is kind of the point of the system, I would say working as intended. They just didn’t like that aspect as much, they thought it made them more actors in a Conan movie then as actual people in the Hyborian World. Again, probably working as intended. One of my players hates with a passion any form of quantified roleplaying award. "I'm not a ing puppy, I don't need a biscuit." He's not typical though.

Specifically, to the meta-game aspect of the system (again, the Doom Pool), another poster in reply to the reviewer says...

I would be fine if you were describing a boardgame or a minis skirmish game, but as a RPG, the system sounds horrifying to me.

The Doom Pool does feel like a board game mechanic--not something that should be used in a Conan RPG.

Where something like the Doom Pool is acceptable is a game where the effects of the pool can be tied to an element of the game's universe, like "The Force" in FFG's Star Wars gaime, or "Dark Symmetry", from Mutant Chronicles (for which the 2d20 System was originally designed).

The Doom Pool doesn't work well as a straight meta-game mechanic where there is no reason for it in a game universe, and Conan's world certainly does not have a Yin and Yang--The Force--Dark Symmetry--Kharma--Chaos vs Law--Good vs Evil type aspect to it. In fact, Conan's universe is exactly opposite of that: The Hyborian Age is a place where a lone warrior can stand alone against the world, without need for either gods or demons. One man. One sword. And the will to face one's enemies. There is no overall, overreaching power or force that governs the world and/or otherwise influences it.

The Doom Pool flies in the face of one of the major aspects of Conan's stories.




I find this ironic for a game that purports to be the closest reflection of Howard's Hyborian Age ever put to print in a roleplaying game.

I recognize that some people like and accept the Doom Pool and the 2d20 System as it is.

All I'm suggesting is that a Variant Rule be written that can be used plug-n-play with the official rules so that those of us who don't like the Doom Pool will have a a viable alternative game system to use. I'm not suggesting that the Doom Pool be torn out for everyone. I'm advocating a choice of rules--an alternative.

 

[moldyderp]

Not going to argue with you Bob until you bring to the table a credible argument. Certainly not going to lend any legitimacy to the thread you linked to from a GM asking blatantly biased and leading questions to his players (e.g. 'did these metagamey aspects seem metagamey to you?', 'doesn't this feel like a board game?'). The thread doesn't even come to the conclusions you think it does, and it does not support your points.

The variant you're looking for is the d20 system from Mongoose. Go play it.

 

[Water Bob]

Not going to argue with you Bob until you bring to the table a credible argument.

That's not surprising at all. First you say that what I suggest about the game system doesn't exist. I provide a link of a game test where players shared some of the aspects I'm suggesting. And, you deny that it is credible.

I would guess that no matter what I post about the game, you'll remain unable to admit that some players take issue with the system.

The variant you're looking for is the d20 system from Mongoose. Go play it.

While the Mongoose d20 rule set is a masterful game system (and Mongoose did an exceptional job mating the Hyborian Age with the d20 rules), I was not expecting Modiphius to use the d20 system at all. In fact, I was in favor of an entirely new game system. I just think that the 2d20 System is a failure. It's a miss that doesn't fit the Hyborian Age well.

Take the Doom Pool out, and make perks and fumbles immediate, and the system will be a much better fit for the Hyborian Age.

 

[BrockBallingdark]

Hell no, the Doom Pool is masterful for the Hyborian Age and though the art is amazing, the system is why I'm all in for this kickstarter. No one is going to convince you Water Bob but that's cool. Just a fyi, if you don't have all the Mongoose pdfs, you can get them on this KS.

 

[Water Bob]

Hell no, the Doom Pool is masterful for the Hyborian Age and though the art is amazing, the system is why I'm all in for this kickstarter. No one is going to convince you Water Bob but that's cool. Just a fyi, if you don't have all the Mongoose pdfs, you can get them on this KS.

Again, I suggested a variant rule be published. I recognize that some like the Doom Pool. I'm so strongly against it that I won't buy the game because of it. But, I most likely would buy the game if I had an alternative that allows me to play the game without the meta-game mechanic.

You would still have the game that you want. And, I'd have an alternative choice so that I can play the way I want. It would be like having a point-buy character generation system as an alternative to a game's official random generation rules.

Win. Win. Giving the players, like me, who see a lot of problems associated with the Doom Pool, an official way to play the game without it.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Not going to argue with you Bob until you bring to the table a credible argument. Certainly not going to lend any legitimacy to the thread you linked to from a GM asking blatantly biased and leading questions to his players (e.g. 'did these metagamey aspects seem metagamey to you?', 'doesn't this feel like a board game?'). The thread doesn't even come to the conclusions you think it does, and it does not support your points.

The variant you're looking for is the d20 system from Mongoose. Go play it.

Not going to argue with you Bob until you bring to the table a credible argument. Certainly not going to lend any legitimacy to the thread you linked to from a GM asking blatantly biased and leading questions to his players (e.g. 'did these metagamey aspects seem metagamey to you?', 'doesn't this feel like a board game?'). The thread doesn't even come to the conclusions you think it does, and it does not support your points.

The variant you're looking for is the d20 system from Mongoose. Go play it.

In this world, people will sometimes disagree with you, and that's okay. If someone disagrees with you and presents their argument in a polite and also cogent manner, it's a good idea to stop and at least consider their point-of-view. You'll be a lot happier if you learn to deal with differences of opinion in a more constructive way, and you'll find that others will be more likely persuaded to your viewpoint if you do.