Resurrection, True Resurrection and Undead PC's

[Mishima]

I spend a lot of time reading these posts, but I've never started one myself. As it happens, it's only a question, so nothing to exciting...but anyway:

Basically, if a PC is turned into, say a Skeleton Warrior from Tome of Horrors or a Vampire or Vampire Spawn from MM (for example) and then spends some time adventuring (in order to find a way to break the curse of undeath), what would happen if he was later made the subject of a True Resurrection spell or destroyed and brought back to life with Resurrection? Would the PC retain any experience gained from encounters between his transformation into an undead being and his resurrection back into true life? Or would he simply come back as he was before becoming undead? Would he retain any levels gained whilst undead?

I'm sorry, this must be an obvious and old question. I hope someone here can help....otherwise we're looking at a full on DM vs PC war. Ergh, I'm so not for that.....

 

[shilsen]

This sort of situation isn't really covered in the RAW, so it's up to the DM to decide. If I was DMing in that situation, I would allow the PC to benefit from the XP gained while adventuring as an undead.

 

[Infiniti2000]

True Resurrection does not do anything to an undead creature. Like resurrection, the undead creature must be destroyed first before he is resurrected.

If the DM assigns the undead creature experience, then I see no reason why it does not retain that experience. I'd have a question about assigning the experience to begin with, especially something like a vampire spawn which does not advance. I don't know about a skeleton warrior.

Thus, use the rules as is. The experience is not lost except in the case of resurrection. Any class levels gained are otherwise retained. Another problem occurs in the adjudication of the LA while undead. This is not so easy. A fighter with enough XP to be level 8 that becomes a vampire has some rules issues to deal with. Does he need enough XP for level 17 to progress to fighter level 9, due to the LA +8 of vampires? There is hot debate on that topic.

 

[Mishima]

Merci beaucoup

Thankyou for the timely response Shilsen and Infiniti2000...just what I needed really was some outside opinions. I think you've pretty much answered my question....as for the issue Infinit2000 raises regarding vampire class levels and so forth....if a pc was below 8th level i'd have them die....above 8 and they'd lose any class levels gained to accomodate the vampire template....even to the point of losing all class levels (if the PC was level8).
Thankyou both again.

 

[Kieperr]

Actually, according to the Undead type listing in the MM an undead subjected to a Resurrection or True Resurrection loses the undead type. Such a creature is returned to what type it was before it was undead. For example, a 13th level wizard vampire that was human before becoming a vampire would become a 13th level human wizard and lose all vampire and undead traits and abilities, including any LA because it is no longer a creature or template with an LA. Any experience beyond what is needed for the human's class levels would be lost as the extra XPs were earned to make up for the LA and that LA no longer exists.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Actually, according to the Undead type listing in the MM an undead subjected to a Resurrection or True Resurrection loses the undead type. Such a creature is returned to what type it was before it was undead.

Yes, but it has to be destroyed first. Read the resurrection and true resurrection spells.

 

[Kieperr]

Yes, but it has to be destroyed first. Read the resurrection and true resurrection spells.

Not actually.

From the SRD, Resurrection and True Resurrection:
"You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed."

This simply means that a creature that has been turned into an undead can be resurrected after the undead has been destroyed. It does not mean you have to destroy it first in order to resurrect it. The undead description backs this up in that it does not require you destroy the undead first.

 

[Darkwulf]

Not actually.

From the SRD, Resurrection and True Resurrection:
"You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed."

This simply means that a creature that has been turned into an undead can be resurrected after the undead has been destroyed. It does not mean you have to destroy it first in order to resurrect it. The undead description backs this up in that it does not require you destroy the undead first.

So, if you can resurrect an undead that has been destroyed, how do you propose to resurrect it without first destroying it?

 

[werk]

So, if you can resurrect an undead that has been destroyed, how do you propose to resurrect it without first destroying it?

"The condition of the remains is not a factor."

I think the key factor for me is that rez doesn't have a save "Will (harmless)". Raise dead does, and rez says, "This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature." ...So you could assume that it has the save on there, which would only really apply when casting the spell offensively on an undead.

Oops, haha, "Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected."

So, yeah, have to kill it, again, first.

 

[Infiniti2000]

This simply means that a creature that has been turned into an undead can be resurrected after the undead has been destroyed. It does not mean you have to destroy it first in order to resurrect it.

Huh, what? Of course it does. That's what the word "AFTER" means.