Rend and extra damage

[Thanee]

Do you get extra damage to weapon damage rolls, when you roll for Rend damage?

For example, would Inspire Courage add to Rend damage?

Also, would Arcane Strike (feat from Complete Warrior) add its extra damage to Rend?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Runestar]

By RAW, no. It is technically not an attack as there are no rolls involved for to-hit. For example, other damage modifiers, such as power attack or your weapon enhancement bonus would not apply. Nor would the damage it deals scale in line with your base weapon damage either (in the case of 2-weapon rend from PHB2). It simply tacks on a flat amount of damage when the requirements are met.

 

[frankthedm]

By RAW, no. It is technically not an attack as there are no rolls involved for to-hit. For example, other damage modifiers, such as power attack or your weapon enhancement bonus would not apply. Nor would the damage it deals scale in line with your base weapon damage either (in the case of 2-weapon rend from PHB2). It simply tacks on a flat amount of damage when the requirements are met.

Uhm, are you sure rend is that clear about how it works? I know in DDM they were expressly clear that was how rend worked. Indeed looking at the text of the entries I have access to, it seems much more probable that rend is a separate automatic attack that claims damage bonuses, penalties and other hindrances, such as DR, separately from the attacks that triggered it. While this IS very breakable, that certainly looks like that way it would work based on the text.

Rend (Ex)
If a troll hits with both claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage.

Trolls As Characters
* Special Attacks (see above): Rend, damage 2d6 + 1½ times Str modifier.

Two-Weapon Rend [Epic]
Prerequisites
Dex 15, base attack bonus +9, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit
If you hit an opponent with a weapon in each hand in the same round, you may automatically rend the opponent. This deals additional damage equal to the base damage of the smaller weapon plus 1 ½ times your Strength modifier. Base weapon damage includes an enhancement bonus on damage, if any. You can only rend once per round, regardless of how many successful attacks you make.

 

[Runestar]

I was going off this article.
Design & Development: Designing the Delve, Part 2

More specifically, this part.

Rend damage probably should be increased if you’re Power Attacking, but by the rules, it isn’t increased. Go complain to a game designer. Don’t forget to apply that damage, though.

Note that 2 weapon rend has been revised in PHB2, and it now just gives a flat 1d6+1.5str damage.

 

[frankthedm]

I was going off this article.
Design & Development: Designing the Delve, Part 2

Yeah, he may be right about the feat based rend, though designers are not always perfect. IIRC one of them even commented on how they sometimes mix up how the rule work and even forget which rules made it into the final version they were working on. Oh, THAT Delve article was the one I recalled!

If a game designer answers a rules question of the top of his or her head, be a little suspicious. Those heads are crammed with previous versions, playtest versions, and Versions That Should Not Be.

A shining example of this is skip williams Rules of the Game: All About Grappling (Part Two). article, which to this day shows the rules mistake Skip Wiliams made in an article that was supposed to clarify the rules.

Note that 2 weapon rend has been revised in PHB2, and it now just gives a flat 1d6+1.5str damage.

Yeah. That version also seems to indicate the rend damage gets checked against DR separately. As if 2-weapon types don't already suffer enough from DR. "This extra damage is treated as the same type that your off-hand weapon deals normally for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and other effects related to damage type"

 

[Thanee]

A shining example of this is skip williams Rules of the Game: All About Grappling (Part Two). article, which to this day shows the rules mistake Skip Wiliams made in an article that was supposed to clarify the rules.

Heh. Maybe it was meant to clarify, that it requires clarification.

Bye
Thanee