D&D 5E Psionics Speculation Based On The Monster Manual

[I'm A Banana]

I've been thinking about how psionics might look in Official 5e recently, since it plays a pretty significant role in my Astral Campaign (githzerai, shardminds, psionic sorcerers, mind flayers, psurlons, neh-thagglu, etc., etc.). We know bits and pieces from the Mystic playtest, but I think it might be worthwhile to look at this from the perspective of psionic things that are already in 5e: namely, psionic monsters.

A few things those monsters suggest:

Psionics is magical.
If you're a mind flayer, and you use dominate monster, a wizard can use dispel magic to end that effect. Similarly, if you're that same mind flayer and you try to plane shift in an Anti-Magic field, it won't work. Even an aboleth's Enslave, or the mind flayer's Mind Blast, which aren't explicitly psionic, are explicitly magical - they can all be dispelled, and don't work in an anti-magic field.

At least some psionics are basically the same as spells.
This might not be the case with "psionic classes" we get later, but every explicit incidence of psionics in the MM is basically a list of spell-like abilities. Those "magical" abilities that might be psionics but definitely aren't spells indicate a possible direction for future psionic abilities that don't mimic spells - things like Mind Blast and Enslave.

Psionic abilities don't use components
Though a mind flayer can psionically plane shift, and it is casting a magical spell when the mind flayer does that, all it needs to do is will itself to a different plane - it needs no magic words, no magic gestures, no tuning fork. This implies that, like a sorcerer using Subtle Spell, it doesn't trigger a counterspell. Normally, even a creature who can innately cast a spell, needs all the components to cast it - words, gestures, and even objects (though many creatures with Innate Spellcasting also note that they can ignore material components).

It seems like WotC is interested in making the "Mystic" turn out very distinct from spellcasters, so I think it's likely that they'll lean hard into "magical abilities that aren't spells" territory, but it'll be interesting to see how that eventual class compares and contrasts with the magical and spell-like psionics that are in the game already. I don't think they'll be delving too deep into the "magic can't affect psionics" territory, though. My guess is, from a fiction standpoint, that magic "suffuses the multiverse" (from the Antimagic Field spell description) - psionics is magic by that definition, though it certainly isn't the learned arcane wizardy magic or even necessarily the spontaneous, quirky sorcerous magic.

That's all rampant speculation, though!

What's yours? Aside from what you might want or wish, what do you think is likely to happen?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Psionics is magical.

It would be sensible, as it would keep all the supernatural stuff under one broad mechanic, and anti-magic and dispel magic and detect magic could all work consistently. Good for simplicity, consistency, playability and balance.

Bad for people who don't like psionics being magic, though.

At least some psionics are basically the same as spells.

Very convenient for design since it means psionic classes can leverage existing spell lists. Limits how much new stuff groups interested in including psionics would have to absorb. Consistent with the above and good for the same reasons.

And a real problem for anyone who feels psionics should be different or distinct from magic.

Psionic abilities don't use components

Components aren't a very meaningful limitation anymore, so probably not a big problem, but they do make it viable to capture casters. You'd need some kind of psionic-damper trick or psionics will have to be routinely put in comas or killed out of hand when captured.

What's yours? Aside from what you might want or wish, what do you think is likely to happen?

I've never felt psionics fits in a fantasy setting particularly well, so I've no skin in the game in the sense of what I'd be delighted or dissapointed with for my own use. I do feel that 5e needs to keep up on it's promise (metaphorical promise as in positivity, inclusiveness and potential, lest someone scream at me that no contractual obligations have been incurred by WotC to actually make D&D) of inclusiveness and (1) include psionics (which it seems to be doing) and (2) leave the varied/disputed details, like psionics-as-magic and psionics-from-the-far-realm, open to individual DM, if not player, choice.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I don't think if something isn't an actual spell that it can be dispelled/counterspelled. Antimagic field is a little weird--it references " Spells and other magical effects", but I think they said that dragon's breath wasn't actually magic (or at least didn't reference magic in the description).

I am pretty sure that Mike Mearls said a couple of times something to the affect of "if a psychic ability is basically casting a spell, it is affected by things that affect spells", so 1) at least some psychic abilities will be "casting spells", and 2) if you can counterspell an elemental monk who is using ki points to cast spells, you can counterspell a mystic using a psychic ability that "casts a spell" too.

I wouldn't be shocked if they did away with the material requirements for psychic spells, since magical implements make them unnecessary for many spells anyway (and they might limit the spells that psychics can cast so as not to have any with 25K gp diamonds in them--sorry, no psychicly manipulating reality guy). I wouldn't mind psychics losing verbal components at some point (8th level) and hand waving at 15th or so.

I suspect the mystic will have a better ratio of class abilities to spells than other casters, since class abilities can't be counter/dispelled and it makes them more distinct compared to other magical classes. I suspect they won't have spell slots but be more "take this mystic discipline and you can cast telekinesis once per day." Give them a class/subclass ability like mind blast (or maybe psychokinetic blast [with a less pseudoscience name]) that is the focus for their offense, and it would likely be easy to build a mystic who could fill up on disciplines that didn't involve spells for the purists.

I also think that the mystic is going to be integrated as much as possible into the mainstream of 5e, so things like psychic combat or monsters that can only be fought psychically are unlikely. That will also reflect in the fluff, which I think will be more Pathfinder Occult then navel gazing enlightenment.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The way WotC has set up 5E as far as I can see... anything that goes beyond simple Newtonian physics is a result of this energy in the multiverse that they call "magic". Every single class that uses or manipulates this energy has been given the opportunity to do so by tapping into it in various ways-- whether it's by scientifically learning the patterns of it and thus repeating them to do so, being granted an opening into it by your god, by having a personal oath so strong that you can pull from this energy, figuring out nature's connection to it and learning how you can work it. For every class there has been a key to unlock this "magic" energy. And without this key (or "theme" as it were), you aren't able to use it. And it is my belief that this is the only energy that exists in the multiverse. Thus... psionics will not be described as something new or completely separate from "magic", instead it'll be how the Mystic taps into this magic that will make it its own class.

Which is why my belief is that at the very least... psionics is going to be described as having an "origination". Something that has happened within the mind of the Mystic that allows them to manipulate the energy of "magic". WotC has been using the Far Realm thus far as their original key... that at some point in the ancient past of the multiverse... the entities of the Far Realm intruded on it in some world and flicked a switch in humanity's brains that opened up the potentiality of using just our minds to grab and work the energy. And this "virus" as it were, has then spread across the multiverse for millenia. So far and wide that many worlds don't even know that this was the original reason why it happened, and instead they just think psionics is a natural part of life.

Now whether or not they keep the "Far Realm" as their origination of psionics tapping into the Weave of magic... I do think they will have something be the cause that allows Mystics to use it. They do not seem interested in making a "Just because" theme... which is the same reason I think why they haven't made a "spontaneous" and "unthematic" Sorcerer either. To tap into the energy of the Weave to manipulate its energy to produce magical effects and break the laws of physics... there HAS to be a reason. It doesn't "just happen". Or at the very least... the one time when it kinda does "just happen", it is greatly uncontrolled and results in the Wild Mage.

So I don't think there will be an "instinctual" Sorcerer, just like I don't think the Mystic will be released without an explanation as to why they can use just their minds to tap into the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse. Every other class has a reason why they can-- to then create a new class that gives NO reason and instead just shrugs their shoulders to say "Heh! Psionics!" is not something I see them doing. And anyone who wants a Sorcerer or Mystic that has no explanation as to why they can do it, will have to be made by that person in their own game themselves.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't think if something isn't an actual spell that it can be dispelled/counterspelled. Antimagic field is a little weird--it references " Spells and other magical effects", but I think they said that dragon's breath wasn't actually magic (or at least didn't reference magic in the description).

What's "magical" and what's just..."fantastical?"... in 5e is kind of an interesting behind-the-screen distinction. A dragon's breath isn't "magical" (though it's clearly not natural!), and neither is a paladin's Lay On Hands, but a mind flayer's mind blast is explicitly magical. Which would mean that, say, you can dispel the stun that the mind blast causes.

I am pretty sure that Mike Mearls said a couple of times something to the affect of "if a psychic ability is basically casting a spell, it is affected by things that affect spells", so 1) at least some psychic abilities will be "casting spells", and 2) if you can counterspell an elemental monk who is using ki points to cast spells, you can counterspell a mystic using a psychic ability that "casts a spell" too.

If a sorcerer casts a spell with only verbal or somatic components using Subtle Spell, can an opponent use counterspell against it? Subtle Spell protects a spell without material components from counterspell, since you can’t see the casting.

That ruling would suggest that casting a Psionic Spell without any components would also not be subject to a counterspell. Currently, none of the Innate Spellcasting (psionics) features of monsters use any components, as far as I can see.

I suspect the mystic will have a better ratio of class abilities to spells than other casters, since class abilities can't be counter/dispelled and it makes them more distinct compared to other magical classes. I suspect they won't have spell slots but be more "take this mystic discipline and you can cast telekinesis once per day." Give them a class/subclass ability like mind blast (or maybe psychokinetic blast [with a less pseudoscience name]) that is the focus for their offense, and it would likely be easy to build a mystic who could fill up on disciplines that didn't involve spells for the purists.

I also think that the mystic is going to be integrated as much as possible into the mainstream of 5e, so things like psychic combat or monsters that can only be fought psychically are unlikely.

Yeah, I could see a potential class feature or something that has language along the lines of "Spells you cast using your Psionics feature are not magical, and are not subject to effects that dispel or prevent magic." That'd probably make some folks happy, and I don't imagine it'd have an earth-shattering effect on the balance of the thing (it's not like abilities are balanced with the presumption of dispel magic or anti-magic field in mind now).

That will also reflect in the fluff, which I think will be more Pathfinder Occult then navel gazing enlightenment.

Occult would be an interesting take, but I'm kind of fond of the new age retro hippy aesthetic for psionics (it fits it squarely in the sci-fi 70's).

I will say that while I've been pretty much "Far Realm, NOoooooo!" as an explanation for psionics, doing this campaign is changing my tune a bit. There's a lot of Alien Aberration / Psionics links in older editions. I don't know that I'm ready to accept it as The Explanation For All Psionics, but as one possible explanation, it's gaining some traction, and it's certainly a link I'm highlighting in my Astral Plane campaign.

 

[SkidAce]

Occult would be an interesting take, but I'm kind of fond of the new age retro hippy aesthetic for psionics (it fits it squarely in the sci-fi 70's).

I will say that while I've been pretty much "Far Realm, NOoooooo!" as an explanation for psionics, doing this campaign is changing my tune a bit. There's a lot of Alien Aberration / Psionics links in older editions. I don't know that I'm ready to accept it as The Explanation For All Psionics, but as one possible explanation, it's gaining some traction, and it's certainly a link I'm highlighting in my Astral Plane campaign.

I've been telling people that its always been there and just as easily kept as ignored as previous editions since all the hullaboo started.

Finally someone else says it too.*

*Not saying you have to use it in your world, just saying that whats started all the fuss is nothing new...

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've been telling people that its always been there and just as easily kept as ignored as previous editions since all the hullaboo started.

Finally someone else says it too.*

*Not saying you have to use it in your world, just saying that whats started all the fuss is nothing new...

It's definitely a stronger vein than I've been giving it credit for! Focusing on Githyanki and Mind Flayers and throwing in psurlons....yeah, lots of far realm psionic stuff.

From my little review, I've seen three or four main threads for psionics fluff:

• X-Men Mutant Powers: This is the Dark Sun explanation. Psionics is the next stage in evolution, something that life discovers when pushed to the brink.
• Powers of Lost Eastern Empires: There's a lot of Good-aligned chimeric creatures that watch out for humanity that have psionic powers in 1e and 2e. Baku, ki-rin, shedu, lammasu. All distinctly "old" / "non-European." This fits a bit with the New Agey orientalism vibe (Ancient civilizations of the East have learned to unlock the powers of the mind! Discover their secrets in my series of 12 home videos!), but could also fit the vibe of some sort of divine enlightenment or spiritual power akin to ki. I'd toss 3e's crystals-and-ectoplasm under this, too.
• Weird Pulpy Sci Fi: Kind of an "our magic is different!" kind of explanation, anchored with one foot in drug culture and another in the afterglow of the space race. Here we have a lot of tentacles and "alien races" and lost dimensions of humanoid worms who pursued perfection of body and mind. Far Realm stuff comes in under here, too, though I think it might be important to distinguish between the Lovecraftian Far Realm of ancient and unknowable entities and, say, the Space Age far realm which is another dimension where alien beings come from to invade. These are very different vibes - psionics is not Lovecraftian in the slightest, but it's very sci-fi in much of its presentation.

 

[Tony Vargas]

but a mind flayer's mind blast is explicitly magical. Which would mean that, say, you can dispel the stun that the mind blast causes.

Like you could dispel the burns caused by a fireball?

I could see a potential class feature or something that has language along the lines of "Spells you cast using your Psionics feature are not magical, and are not subject to effects that dispel or prevent magic." That'd probably make some folks happy, and I don't imagine it'd have an earth-shattering effect on the balance of the thing (it's not like abilities are balanced with the presumption of dispel magic or anti-magic field in mind now).

I guess it's not like abilities are balance, period, but you do here dispel, counterspel, and anti-magic brought up in defense of caster power, at times, FWIW - and they certainly have been meaningful factors in most past editions.

I will say that while I've been pretty much "Far Realm, NOoooooo!" as an explanation for psionics, doing this campaign is changing my tune a bit. There's a lot of Alien Aberration / Psionics links in older editions.

Could be a coincidence how creepy and aberrant and Lovecraftian Mind Flayers and Intellect Devourers and Thought Eaters and ...y'know, there's a pattern there... and Brain Moles and Cerebral Parasites and Su-Monsters and Aboleths all were.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Like you could dispel the burns caused by a fireball?

More like how you could dispel the paralyzation from a hold person - dispel magic ends "magical effects" and the mind blast is a "magical" effect.

I guess it's not like abilities are balance, period, but you do here dispel, counterspel, and anti-magic brought up in defense of caster power, at times, FWIW - and they certainly have been meaningful factors in most past editions.

I like how 5e kept 4e's idea of downgrading spell effectiveness and standardizing counters rather than making it a magical arms race. I don't imagine a future psionic class will go against that flow, so it shouldn't be necessary balance, either. It's more than a ribbon, but maybe not by much.

Could be a coincidence how creepy and aberrant and Lovecraftian Mind Flayers and Intellect Devourers and Thought Eaters and ...y'know, there's a pattern there... and Brain Moles and Cerebral Parasites and Su-Monsters and Aboleths all were.

I wonder if it's more like a big ol' inspiration orgy. Lovecraft influenced pulpy Sci-Fi and D&D, pulpy Sci-Fi influenced Lovecraft and D&D, D&D influenced pulpy Sci-Fi (and I bet Lovecraft would've been a fan)...

 

[77IM]

What's yours? Aside from what you might want or wish, what do you think is likely to happen?

I think that whatever they put out will be somewhat divisive. Not enough to fracture the player base or anything; just an ample source of internet fights and whining for years to come.