[Proposal]Bazaar of the Bizarre (Dr 369)

[renau1g]

I see them being used mostly by either an avenger (who will gain great bonuses to their damage when the get attacked by OA) or ranged types who need to get out of melee and would be willing to take a lower attack roll in that round in order to be safe to use their powers after that.

I'm less concerned about them then the gauntlets, like Evo said.

 

[renau1g]

Well it all depends WHEN you get the gloves. You pick them up at it's earliest, it's got the same accuracy as any heavy throw weapon. Once you move some levels, it does drop off but it's no worse than a non-magic thrown weapon. So it ends up being a high damage attack when you HAVE to use ranged or you have a low AC target. Seems like a cool option if someone like to have a ranged weapon 'just in case'. Plus who can't use free bonus damage once per encounter?

I would like to compare these gloves with the Throwing Shield (lvl 6) item. That item has range 10 (vs 6/12), no encounter power, damage is 1d8 vs 2d6, the daily power pushes 1 square. I think the gloves are too powerful with this comparison as the average damage is about is 3 points higher per attack and it's two leevls lower than a comparitive item from a hardcover.

 

[elecgraystone]

I see them being used mostly by either an avenger (who will gain great bonuses to their damage when the get attacked by OA).

I'll be honest, I'm not overly familiar with Avengers. Which abilities are you talking about?

or ranged types who need to get out of melee and would be willing to take a lower attack roll in that round in order to be safe to use their powers after that.

It would always be MUCH better to move out of combat normally then to run for a ranged person. Run is ALWAYS a crappy option when you are in combat.

Walk out of combat normal OA, normal damage
Run out of combat, combat advantage OA, +1 ac, 1/2 damage from attack, -5 your attack.

Run is only a better option if you KNOW you are going to be hit with the OA and it doesn't have a special effect like having combat advantage. Take an enemy with sneak attack.
Walk and hit with OA: d6 +3 damage
Run and hit with OA: 3d6 +3 dmage halved.
Should have walked even when you KNEW you were going to be hit.

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

Well it all depends WHEN you get the gloves. You pick them up at it's earliest, it's got the same accuracy as any heavy throw weapon. Once you move some levels, it does drop off but it's no worse than a non-magic thrown weapon. So it ends up being a high damage attack when you HAVE to use ranged or you have a low AC target. Seems like a cool option if someone like to have a ranged weapon 'just in case'. Plus who can't use free bonus damage once per encounter?

*Psst* Stop arguing against your case.

You are right, though. But everything depends on when you get it. A vanilla +2 weapon is pretty good at level 2, but less so at level 5. I meant over time, it's inaccurate. And strictly speaking, it's more like a magical non-weapon (which it is) than a non-magical weapon. A javelin will always be at Str+2 vs AC. This is an implement attack vs AC, which generally suck.

As for Avengers, Censure of Retribution requires that you be hit to trigger the damage, so the AC bonus actually hurts there, although certainly any hits that do land will hurt a lot less. I don't remember the exact math, but I think the Oath comes out to an effective +5 to hit or something, which cancels out the penalty for running. Except Avenger damage seems to be based around being super accurate, so it's like taking away Sneak Attack or Quarry for a turn.

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

I would like to compare these gloves with the Throwing Shield (lvl 6) item. That item has range 10 (vs 6/12), no encounter power, damage is 1d8 vs 2d6, the daily power pushes 1 square. I think the gloves are too powerful with this comparison as the average damage is about is 3 points higher per attack and it's two leevls lower than a comparitive item from a hardcover.

The shield also gives a defense bonus, the damage evens out at higher levels, and you don't need an addition free hand besides the one you were already holding the shield in.

 

[elecgraystone]

I would like to compare these gloves with the Throwing Shield (lvl 6) item. That item has range 10 (vs 6/12), no encounter power, damage is 1d8 vs 2d6, the daily power pushes 1 square. I think the gloves are too powerful with this comparison as the average damage is about is 3 points higher per attack and it's two levels lower than a comparative item from a hardcover.

You missed something, That item is also a shield, that's +2 AC and REF. The gloves also need ammo and you can throw the shield all day.

Are they the gloves too strong? If we let people use it like it's the shield and don't track ammo then yes. If someone has to carry around 15 lb rocks to use it? Not really. This item could also use a reload on it. I think a minor reload would work.

And NO one has had a problem with the item I want! Hope it keeps up.

 

[renau1g]

But the shield only gives the same bonus as a basic non-magical shield (costing only a few gold) whereas the gloves cause more damage than any non-magical ranged item.

Oh & for the Avenger, the Oath of Enmity types gain their Dex mod to damage against their oath target if they get hit by an OA along the way. or somethiing like that, but if you only take 1/2 damage it becomes much better.

 

[elecgraystone]

But the shield only gives the same bonus as a basic non-magical shield (costing only a few gold) whereas the gloves cause more damage than any non-magical ranged item.

But it's NOT a weapon. It's not like I can use my weapon powers with it. And it's not like I can use a shield and throw boulders so it doesn't matter how little cost the base shield is, the glove uses can't get it.

Oh & for the Avenger, the Oath of Enmity types gain their Dex mod to damage against their oath target if they get hit by an IA along the way. or something like that, but if you only take 1/2 damage it becomes much better.

So + dex and -5 for running? I'm not seeing an awesome combo there. I think shift, no OA and normal hit sounds better IMO.

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

And NO one has had a problem with the item I want! Hope it keeps up.

So, assuming it's not the Flagon, then what could it be? I think you said you were considering an artificer, so the Feral Armor and Pact Bow aren't too useful. The Baldric of Dividing Ranks is wildly situational. Is it the Fleetrunner boots? I know that if I were trying to get the most out of running, I'd take them over the Ghoststride Boots, so that I'd have a better chance of connecting with my next attack. Unless I were a Retribution Avenger, see below.

But the shield only gives the same bonus as a basic non-magical shield (costing only a few gold) whereas the gloves cause more damage than any non-magical ranged item.

Oh & for the Avenger, the Oath of Enmity types gain their Dex mod to damage against their oath target if they get hit by an OA along the way. or somethiing like that, but if you only take 1/2 damage it becomes much better.

Fair enough regarding the shield's defense. I still think the not requiring another free hand is pretty significant though.

The Avenger mechanic is the Censure of Retribution. Whenever they get hit by someone besides their Oath target, they get a stacking +Int to their damage roll against their Oath target until the end of their next turn. Huh, I didn't realize it lasted that long. That actually could be a problem. Avenger runs after Oath target, taking a bunch of half-damage AoOs along the way, and then gets to attack with reduced accuracy. Then on their next turn, they still have the potentially huge +damage, and are attacking at their full accuracy. Hmm.

See, this is why I didn't vote right away.

 

[elecgraystone]

So, assuming it's not the Flagon, then what could it be?

it's not the Flagon!

Whenever they get hit by someone besides their Oath target, they get a stacking +Int to their damage roll against their Oath target until the end of their next turn. Huh, I didn't realize it lasted that long. That actually could be a problem. Avenger runs after Oath target, taking a bunch of half-damage AoOs along the way, and then gets to attack with reduced accuracy. Then on their next turn, they still have the potentially huge +damage, and are attacking at their full accuracy. Hmm.

Interesting tactic. Like I said, I'm not overly well versed in the Avenger myself. Honestly why attack at all with the -5? Run then full defense or second wind depending of the amount of damage. However for a huge bonus, it's still a lot of 1/2 damage attacks. Best used with minion AoO.