Proposal: Allow Simplier Character Creation

[renau1g]

Well one thing with posting PDF CS's to an external site, that violates WoTC policy so that option's out. With Iplay4e the only downside to that site is that its an external site, if it gets shut down we'd be fubar'd right, although I guess we'd still have the back-up.

Re: Judges disappearing, yes it happens, but the odds of all the judges disappearing is pretty low and if they all did...well LEB would be in more trouble than just having access to the CS's

Personally, I don't mind if there are 2 options for people making their PC's as as long as there's only 2. 1 for with DDI & one without.

Now the CB isn't perfect, but neither is the template, nor are the judges/reviewers so any option we go with will likely have errors or omissions.

 

[elecgraystone]

How many characters are actually affected by these bugs in practice? Five percent? For those few that are affected, we just put a note about the bug after the summary. I don't think that will be hard at all for a checker to deal with.

Well, it's more what percentage of builds are effected. Any build that uses 2 things in their hand other than shield + weapon have a good chance of being affected. Also any item that has an effect that changed how the base item works (acts as an implement too, gains heavy thrown, grants prof) fail to work. Since I like those builds and/or items I find things not working most of the time. It'll be up to the checkers if they want to deal with it.

Forgot to mention that in my case, at least 50% of the errors on my character sheets have been errors in the templates

I'd say mine is a LOT higher than 50%. Most of my mistakes are template related mistakes.

I still disagree. But, fair enough. I still think 1 method only would be best

I agree, but if the reviewers are fine with two I'll not argure the point as long as one of the two isn't wiki.

 

[Otakkun]

Can't we just have 2 options for posting character sheets?

One for those with the CB, another for those who don't.

It would make this place much more friendlier for everyone out there (and for most of us IN here who'd like to run a second character but find the template too much of a pain to use again )

 

[renau1g]

Well, as I said, I'm on record with being fine with two options, but need the other judges to weigh in.

 

[elecgraystone]

Can't we just have 2 options for posting character sheets? One for those with the CB, another for those who don't.

It would make this place much more friendlier for everyone out there (and for most of us IN here who'd like to run a second character but find the template too much of a pain to use again )

While I think having just one way to make characters would be the best, it's up to the reviewers. However I will say that if the two options where wiki and CB that it WOULDN'T 'make this place much more friendlier for everyone', just those people with CB.

We need to dig a hole, dump wiki in, fill in the hole and all agree never to talk about it again. I'll go out and dig one now...

 

[Kalidrev]

While I happen to love the Wiki... it has been sentenced to execution by Morrus (so feel free to start digging that hole elec ). I have absolutely no problems with having 2 systems for ease of use, and I am very much liking what I am seeing from Scorps googledocs excel file. I'm not sure if this has already been hashed out, but do the google docs provide any kind of revision history? If so, then I would have no problem with using this in place of the Wiki (even if it's not as pretty yet ). For those who use CB, I would not have a problem with using the CB, but again, revision history is the issue here. How can we both use the CB (for those that have it) AND maintain some kind of proof against abusive character sheet manipulation?

Once I have an answer to these I think most of us would not have a problem with nixing the wiki all together (at least as far as the templates are concerned).

 

[KarinsDad]

While I think having just one way to make characters would be the best, it's up to the reviewers. However I will say that if the two options where wiki and CB that it WOULDN'T 'make this place much more friendlier for everyone', just those people with CB.

Which around here is a significant portion of the people.

I'm totally fine with getting rid of wiki, but I don't think that the summary sheet is the answer.

I think the two options should be:

1) The CB character sheet, abet on a site like Iplay4e, as per renau1g's comment. I also think that in this case, we would not even need Iplay4e. The player could Email the .PDF and/or DDI CB file to the DM and all of the Judges. I don't think it is too much to ask that a DM have access to free Adobe.

2) An easier version like ScorpiusRisk's spreadsheet.

If a given player does not want to load CB or does not want to join Iplay4e or has other restrictions, then that player uses option #2. I don't think we should come up with a lot of different ways to do this. Just one super simple way and one less simple way.


I also think that the "one standardized way" argument is smoke and mirrors. The DMs and Judges probably aren't really going to care as long as it's easy for them. When 4E first came out, I had 3 different character sheets from 3 of my players and I didn't care.

 

[renau1g]

I don't think we need iplay4e either, just a suggestion. One problem with the pdf thing is that the onus for storage falls to the judges right? As we have to keep the approved sheet's on our e-mail to ensure that nobody makes any changes to them after approval.

 

[ryryguy]

While I happen to love the Wiki... it has been sentenced to execution by Morrus (so feel free to start digging that hole elec ). I have absolutely no problems with having 2 systems for ease of use, and I am very much liking what I am seeing from Scorps googledocs excel file. I'm not sure if this has already been hashed out, but do the google docs provide any kind of revision history? If so, then I would have no problem with using this in place of the Wiki (even if it's not as pretty yet ). For those who use CB, I would not have a problem with using the CB, but again, revision history is the issue here. How can we both use the CB (for those that have it) AND maintain some kind of proof against abusive character sheet manipulation?

Once I have an answer to these I think most of us would not have a problem with nixing the wiki all together (at least as far as the templates are concerned).

A CB summary on a wiki page would provide a history. Having a wiki (though not Morris' wiki) still seems like a good idea for setting details and so forth. So why not have pages for each PC on the wiki as well, where CB summary or links to the spreadsheet can live?

Remember, "wiki" does not equal "confusing templates".

I'm still not sure though how we'd do a summary version of the sheet if the player is using CB. We can't post the character sheet PDF unfortunately. iplay4e requires the viewer to have a DDI subscription to see power details. I guess you could just make a summary version on the wiki page by hand. Have any other solutions to that issue been considered?

 

[evilbob]

Does iplay4e track changes? If it did, there's your CB-owning solution right there.

If not, if Scorp's google-excel file can track changes, maybe he can put a cell at the bottom for CB data? That way we'd still have basically 1 solution, with a "DDI option" for those who have it.