Project Sigil Project Sigil Updates: D&D's 3d Virtual Tabletop

D&D's 3D virtuial tabletop.
dnd_sigil.jpeg


Project Sigil is the upcoming 3D VTT from WotC. From various Gen Con reports --
  • Creative Mode lets you prep on the fly or modify pre-made content
  • Assets from Baldur's Gate 3 are included, such as the characters as digital miniatures
  • Minis have multiple poses but are not animated
  • Spells are animated though
  • Uses Unreal Engine 5 (or 4, I've seen different reports)
  • Launch on PC, mobiles and consoles later
  • Closed Beta this fall--sign up here
  • DDB subscribers will have greater access

sigil_builder.jpg

This is the 'creative mode' toolbox, apparently!
 

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I doubt it would be DOA. Having minis for MM and MotM covers a large selection of critters, you are likely to find something that can be a stand-in. Maybe even add Fizban and Bigby... Doesn't mean there won't be some kind of import though
There's a reason why it's such a critical thing. The dungeon masters that 2024:has so far totally ignored in who want to use a vtt are already using a vtt that has those things and all of the feasures . we've seen for this are exclusively player focused. Much like dnd2024 this VTT seems focused exclusively at players yet, like revenue or planning & running a session in a vtt, it is the gm who is responsible for the Lion's share of the work with a VTT.
 

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I am sure they will monetize it aggressively when the time comes, but given that they are actively avoiding direct rules integration I think AI DMs are not a present danger.
This is interesting because they were very clear that they did want direct rules integration in earlier press about, and even the very first faux-demo showed direct rules integration.

I guess they ran into the same wall that other VTTs have, that being that direct rules integration is hard, really hard. Even if you can get it working technically (which is the easier part), the interface to control it, and the ability for DMs to override it or the like just really to design well. Especially in game which has Reactions and so on.

I mean, in my experience "imagine this Lizardman (or quarter) is an Elven Peoncess" works fine for minis.
I think you'll find people have very different standards for minis at the table and digital representations in a game, especially one that's generally flashy visually, as the VTT seems to be aiming to be. So this may be an issue.

On the other hand, if the DM can just use the character designer freely for NPCs, it probably don't be a huge one. Especially if there's some kind of "palette swap" option to differentiate monsters. If they try and over-monetize that (charging for palette swaps, for example) I think people may become somewhat unhappy with them. We shall see.

It seems pretty clear that they aim to sell minis (and likely terrain as well).
The initial announcement made it very clear that they were intending to sell minis to both the players and DM, and also that they really wanted to find a way to monetize terrain (though they seemed to be suggesting buying adventures would come with terrain - not buying them via Beyond at that point though note, so I'd expect an extra charge above Beyond (lol).

It wasn't a VTT was it? I can't remember, but my recollection is a character builder?
It started out as purely a character builder, then the Kickstarter added a ton of DM tools and allowed dice-rolling and stuff, but they never called it a VTT, and I'd say what they were aiming at was a lot more like Beyond's gameplay stuff, just done a bit better/more ambitiously (in theory), than an actual VTT.

They also have the people from DDB and hired significant staff. So it's more likely to be successful.
At least as of late 2023, the Beyond team was completely and totally separate from the VTT team. Not only did people working on them say this, but you could see it in the titles for hiring for each. Indeed, we've heard that the 3D VTT leadership strongly opposed even buying Beyond, though one supposes that beef got squashed at some point when WotC realized cross-marketing = $$$ and that "internal competition" is dumb.

But hiring significant staff is the big difference. Cynthia Williams, whilst she was there, said they had 250 people working directly on the 3D VTT. That's a crazy low-mid AAA videogame number of people, several times more than work on D&D (probably more than work on MtG, though I don't know). That huge investment is really what means success is more likely. For once WotC seems to be serious about it. I do wonder if they'll stay serious, but I think a lot of that depends on how many people they can attract and how quickly they can get them microtransacting.

All other official WotC attempts at digital products were utterly tepid and pathetic, with tiny teams and little investment. Even WotC partnerships/outsourcing they tended to select very small teams. It's honestly a miracle Beyond got made and that Larian got BG3 (I honestly think, had WotC execs had fully understood Larian were small but growing incredibly rapidly when they gave them BG3, they wouldn't have done it, that they only did it because they thought they were a little tiny AA).
 
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It looks pretty from the screenshots, but I'm going to be harsh here: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

In the last 25 years WotC (Hasbro) has imho produced one good product of tech/software and that is Magic the Gathering: Arena. Everything else was either absolute crap or they threw in the towel way too early. Imho the reason that DDB is relatively popular is not because it's so good, it's because people don't have another choice...

I'm not going to dump a large pile of cash into something like this for WotC/Hasbro to pull the plug on (again) at an undetermined later time. Because at this point WotC has a worse track history with their digital products then Google (just google the Google graveyard). This is also the reason why I never bought anything DDB.

Again it looks very pretty! But a VTT/RPG is more (or can be) then the 'battlemap' that is shown here. What about sharing images, sharing sounds/music, information, etc.?

There have been other examples of VTTs that implement the 3D aspect very well, Talespire for example. So this isn't new or anything... Using UE4 or UE5 means that it requires quite a bit of power to run and initial PC support only would mean that the people that can actually use it is relatively limited. But that mobile devices and consoles are in the pipeline is an actual improvement over most other (3D) VTTs out there. But that's way down the line and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it never materialized. WotC/Hasbro have the resources to build something truly great, but I expect it to be a money milking machine first and anything else last... If not, it would be a happy coincidence.

But to be honest, the screenshot with the self building elements in it looks/feels like I'm looking at a computer game. I have nothing against a computer game, I play plenty of those myself. But when we play a pnp RPG online, we (as in our group) wants to stay away from it being a computer game. That's one reason why I've stayed away from 3D VTTs, other reasons include: More computer power and different platforms of the players, often janky viewing controls (looking at you Tabletop Simulator!), WAY more prep time, difficult to get consistent visuals, often proprietary content, infrastructure, etc.

I see the potential of a good 3D VTT (maybe not for my group), especially with VR, but I don't think I'll jump in anytime soon... I have serious doubts that WotC/Hasbro will produce a good 3D VTT and stick with it. I might play around with it, just to see what it does, but that's probably it.

But if it doesn't have support for D&D 2024 rules built in and take care of rules automations, especially for AOE effects, there would be little incentive for me to move from Foundry.
Why would you want to move from Foundry? IF you want 3D in your D&D VTT, there's 3D Canvas from theripper93 already. And if WotC/Hasbro ever decides to pull the plug (again) on their 3D VTT your left with nothing, with Foundry they can pull the plug and you can still run whatever version you're running (and have backupped)... That's the reason why I went with Foundry in the first place, that and the enormous community support. AND there is official D&D support as well. So why leave it?
 

I think we need to remember this is a 0.1 version of the tool and they will always want the option to allow a group to play other games or play D&D with house rules. So tight integration with DDB, which may not be required to use Sigil, is likely not a top priority. That, and the D&D rules can be a bit wonky under the best of circumstances in ways that we can handle at the table but would be hard to implement in code.

As far as whether this will be around later on, there's no guarantee any other VTT will be around tomorrow either. We don't have a lot of visibility into their internal financials, we have no way of knowing how stable they are. It is kind of funny that some people are worried about the focus on digital tools and others being worried that they aren't focused enough on digital tools. They can't win.

For me? I'm always curious about new technology and I hope this gives people that want it a good alternative. It looks like the kind of tool I may have seriously considered when we had to go online but I'm hoping that never happens again. Hopefully I'll never seriously use it other than to play around with and maybe experiment a bit.
 

Much like dnd2024 this VTT seems focused exclusively at players yet, like revenue or planning & running a session in a vtt, it is the gm who is responsible for the Lion's share of the work with a VTT.
sure, it will be the DM who creates maps (unless you use existing ones eg from a module), but I doubt a lack of a mini for a custom monster will be an issue, that is so low on the list of what is important…
 
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Other option is players could create their own interactive novels, something like otome dating-sim videogames where the main character is the new student in the Stryxhaven academy.

Some packs would add the gamebooks from Endless Quest collection. You would buy a pack with miniatures of characters and monsters, and as gift an interative novel.
 

sure, it will be the DM who creates maps (unless you use existing ones eg from a module), but I doubt a lack of a mini for a custom monster will be an issue, that is so low on the list of what is important…
Uhh... No .. 110% of the work involved in preparing for and running the VTT tends to fall exclusively on the GM's shoulders on top of the GM's usual responsibilities just for running the game. This is a VTT made for players.

There is a very similar reason why many years ago Balmer made his developers developers developers presentation and wotc very clearly is not at the point where they are in a position to do anything about that need even if they recognize it.

The gm has exclusive responsibility for selecting using and running a VTT at their table (that usually includes hardware support for in person play too), a VTT focused so heavily on players who often can't even be bothered to supply a token to their gm rather than using one of the options the gm had available is hardly going to be enticing to the person responsible for selecting and running it
 

Uhh... No .. 110% of the work involved in preparing for and running the VTT tends to fall exclusively on the GM's shoulders on top of the GM's usual responsibilities just for running the game. This is a VTT made for players.
I am not sure where I said otherwise, so not sure where the ‘uh no’ comes from. That still does not make having the exact mini for a custom monster a high priority item

The gm has exclusive responsibility for selecting using and running a VTT at their table (that usually includes hardware support for in person play too), a VTT focused so heavily on players
how is this more focused on players than other VTTs. Who has to do the work did not change in this VTT

If anything better automation support would be DM focus
 

I am not sure where I said otherwise, so not sure where the ‘uh no’ comes from. That still does not make having the exact mini for a custom monster a high priority item


how is this more focused on players than other VTTs. Who has to do the work did not change in this VTT

If anything better automation support would be DM focus
You forgot what the asset import tangent was about from back in post 8. It wasn't about an "exact mini". Having the "exact mini" is an appeal to players not the gm & those players have zero influence or effort in choosing using or actually running the VTT at the table.
 
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