D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[schnee]

...would you believe, that I've never seen a balanced character come to my table with rolled up ability scores? They all presented with above average stats for their characters with usually no bad stats, no negative anything, and at least an 18 score (or maybe two 18 scores) to start. Each and every player!

...

So I'm just really thinking that this time, for the new campaign, to disallow rolling the stats.

Have them roll in front of you. Don't accept any rolls not seen by you. You'll see plenty of sensible stats then.

Tell them this ahead of time, so they come with concepts and then just deal with the ability scores. Create some minimum floor for a viable character - a minimum value of all their combined stats bonuses that lets them re-roll if they roll terribly.

Our game has a Rogue with two 9's. Another character has three 10's. Another had to re-roll because his first one had two scores with penalties and nothing over 14.

Trust me, you'll get much more realistic scores. And it'll scare off the wrong types of players.

 

[Arial Black]

'Random' can be totally fair. It depends what you do. For example, all the players could roll a set of ability scores, and then each player can choose whatever set they want, even if the same set is chosen multiple times. Guaranteed to be 'fair'.

Try this: get a normal deck of playing cards, take one red suit and one black suit, discard all aces, twos, threes, tens and pictures.

You now have two suits of six cards each, numbered 4 to 9.

I like randomness mixed with a bit of control. Too much control leads to cookie-cutter PCs and too little need for creative problem solving. Too little or no control leaves you helplessly tossed by the winds of fate.

So, bearing that in mind, take your twelve cards, shuffle them, and deal them all out face up, one at a time, to each stat, in order Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha. Then deal a second card to each.

Each stat will have two cards, ranging from four to nine. The worst a stat can be is to get both fours (8). The best would be both nines (18). The average is 13.

Right now, you have had no control over which stat got which score. Now, each player has the option of choosing two cards and switching them. You might choose to make sure you have an 18 (if you didn't already deal both nines to the same stat) but you only have a choice of two stats to make 18 because you only have a single switch so the 18 can only be one of the two stats that got dealt a nine.

You might have other priorities. Classes you are going for, party balance, all sorts. But you have a semi-random set of stats which has exactly the same total and stat range as every other player at the table.

You might think that this works fine when everyone is making a PC at the start of the campaign, but what about a replacement PC for when a PC dies? The randomness might mean that the vacated role cannot be adequate filled. Well, either suck it up think of a creative solution, or deal the first six cards out (one to each stat), and then arrange the remaining six cards as you like; there is no card switch in this version.

TL;DR: you can indeed have random scores which are nevertheless perfectly fair at the end, not just a perfectly fair chance but a bad result.

 

[ad_hoc]

As much as I liked rolling stats in previous editions I just don't think it works well in 5e. Rolling for hit points also doesn't work well.

Rolling for stats is especially problematic if you add feats to the game.

There is just nowhere to go. If you start the game with an 18-20 there is little room to improve. Feats have much less of a tradeoff.

 

[Shiroiken]

There are advantages and disadvantage to each character creation method, but I've always required "verified" rolls for ability scores. You have to roll in front of a witness; me or another player. technically 2 people could cheat together, but this is less likely.

 

[TwoSix]

1) Roll 2d6+5 5 times.
2) Sum those values, and subtract them from 75.
3) If a value is higher than 17, change it to 17 and add the excess to the lowest stat.
4) If a value is lower than 7, change it to 7 and subtract the difference from the highest stat.
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 until all values are between 7 and 17, and the sum of all 6 values should be 75.

Change boundary conditions (7 and 17), total sum (75), or dice rolling method (2d6+5) to taste.

 

[FarBeyondC]

Disallowing rolling may very well be the way you need to go in order to deal with your worries.

It may be a good idea to explain your reasoning for the decision to your players first, to see their reactions.

 

[Xeviat]

I've been wanting to give rolling a chance again in my next game. I haven't rolled stats in ages. I was thinking of having a session zero where the players come up with their characters together (small village, everyone knows each other).

I was thinking of having the three players each roll 4d6k3 twice and use those stats for everyone. But I'd really like to see organic characters rolled "down the line". I'm tired of everyone having Con 14.


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[Satyrn]

I truly believe that rolling ability scores is more fun for players, and can create balanced characters with the "risk" of having a few bad stats...

We switched to the Standard Array (not point buy) a couple years ago and it has been an improvement all around, I think. I know I prefer it as a player, and so does my co-DM who had us make the switch for much the same reason as you want to (although we always rolled in front of each other).

No one has ever complained about the change at all, either. I think it was a success.

Also, I totally recommend using the Standard Array (not point buy). Your core issue is the PCs' numerical strength. Point buy won't dampen this issue for you the way Standard Array will. With Point Buy, your players can still be gettting an 18 at first level and you'll be stuck with exactly the same problem.

The Standard Array lessens your problem better. And it's still fun. More fun, perhaps, since it gives us those ASIs to look forward to, although I'm still stuck at a 16 in my combat stat because feats.

Again, this has been my experience, after we made the change for much the same reasons you have..

 

[Satyrn]

I've been wanting to give rolling a chance again in my next game. I haven't rolled stats in ages. I was thinking of having a session zero where the players come up with their characters together (small village, everyone knows each other).

I was thinking of having the three players each roll 4d6k3 twice and use those stats for everyone. But I'd really like to see organic characters rolled "down the line". I'm tired of everyone having Con 14.


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When I made my current character (the gnome battlemaster), I built him using the Standard Array, but I placed the svores randomly:
1d6 to determine where to place the 15 (count down from the top)
1d5 for the 14, skipping where the 15 went
1d4
1d3
1d2

You might be able to get your players to buy in to something like that.

 

[neogod22]

We switched to the Standard Array (not point buy) a couple years ago and it has been an improvement all around, I think. I know I prefer it as a player, and so does my co-DM who had us make the switch for much the same reason as you want to (although we always rolled in front of each other).

No one has ever complained about the change at all, either. I think it was a success.

Also, I totally recommend using the Standard Array (not point buy). Your core issue is the PCs' numerical strength. Point buy won't dampen this issue for you the way Standard Array will. With Point Buy, your players can still be gettting an 18 at first level and you'll be stuck with exactly the same problem.

The Standard Array lessens your problem better. And it's still fun. More fun, perhaps, since it gives us those ASIs to look forward to, although I'm still stuck at a 16 in my combat stat because feats.

Again, this has been my experience, after we made the change for much the same reasons you have..

You can't start with an 18 with point buy. You can only buy up to 15, and since no race higher than +2, the highest possible stat at lvl 1 is 17.

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