Peak of D&D: the 1980s?

[rogueattorney]

This is a hard question because so much is different now.
1. Computer games are a lot more sophisticated and draw from more of the same crowd than the Atari 2600-type games of the early 80's.
2. The game was marketed to and played by a bit younger crowd in the 80's than now.
3. As part of the marketing to the younger set, the game had a bit more presence in the mainstream (relatively speaking) with the D&D cartoon, kid's toys, advertising in comic books and on T.V., product placement in toystores, etc.
4. Younger kids now tend to play CCG's or Clix/Mageknight rather than rpg's.
5. There is nowhere near the kind of competition from "serious" board/war games (as in Avalon Hill, SPI, etc.) now as there was in the early 80's. The mass-market board game business ("Sorry", "Clue", etc.) has almost dried up.
6. The Internet changes everything from the way the game is played to how it is marketed and how the fans of the game interact.
7. My (and I imagine most of our) perspective is completely skewed because I was a middle-schooler then and a 30-something now. What was popular to a middle-schooler won't necessarily be known to a 30-something and vice versa.

Further it's really hard to compare where D&D stands with relation to other rpg's now as compared to the early 80's. In some ways it's the same, D&D is clearly the king of the block, which wasn't necessarily true in 1996 or so. The OGL has also managed to replicate to some degree the free-wheeling early 80's where many companies (Judges Guild, Flying Buffalo, Mayfair, etc.) were but weren't <wink, wink> making products for D&D. In other ways it's different. The d20 system, for one, has somewhat subsumed D&D into part of a larger whole, and makes it harder to determine what is and isn't D&D. But basically, I have no idea if non-D&D rpg's have a bigger or lesser share of the market now than in the 80's.

I'd love to see some hard number, because, honestly, I haven't the foggiest clue.

R.A.

 

[Singing Smurf]

But I currently count time spent on the "meta" aspects of the game the same way I do actually playing. IMHO the meta aspects of the game are as enjoyable if not more enjoyable than actually playing. <snip>

Whether you are actually currently in an active campaign or not... it's all good. That is absolutely THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ASPECT of this game!

'Zactly.

For me, 3.x is ideally suited for this because of its many crunchy modular elements and clever combinations to be discovered. Because I'm a complete dork, I enjoy painting up a mini, developing a character concept, stating it up, perhaps designing a custom prestige class if I'm feeling _really_ energetic.

 

[Akrasia]

....Rather, there were two *distinct* game systems: Dungeons & Dragons (which had a "Basic" and an "Expert" set of rules) and the more complex Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. But D&D did *not* segue into AD&D.

Oh I am well aware of this!

In fact, when I returned to D&D circa 1991/2, I found the Basic/Expert/Rules Cylcopedia version of the game much more coherent and streamlined than the AD&D version!

My point was that there existed an "alternative, less-demanding" version of the game in the 1980s, that appealed to players who did not wish to wade through endless hardbacks, etc.

 

[Crothian]

Re: Golden Age

Golden Age of RPG Quality

I'm not familar with sales numbers now or then, but I am moire then familar with the books. The quality now is amazing, there are many great books by many compaines for a variety of different RPG systems. Don't just take my word for it, Teflon Billy agrees

 

[T. Foster]

The fact that more PHBs per year are being sold "now" as were sold in the 80s doesn't mean more people are playing the game by any means. For one thing, consider that everybody who plays 3E has bought at least 1 PHB in the last 4 years, and many people have bought 2 (3.0 and 3.5), whereas in the 80s someone who bought a PHB in 1981 (or, for that matter, in 1978) likely saw no reason to buy another (at least until 2E was released in 1989), even if he was playing the game the entire time in-between. So obviously the former number is going to "average" higher because these two 'tentpole' releases (and that's not even counting the double-dip factor of 3.5 which makes any equating of number of PHBs sold to number of people playing the game extremely dubious). And let's also not forget that this is a comparison of apples to oranges anyway, because the 3E PHB is considered the 'entry level' product whereas the 1E PHB was not. The 1E PHB was what 'advanced' players 'graduated up' to after being introduced to the game through the Basic Set, and many casual fans (and even some not-so-casual fans) likely never made that switch. It was the Basic Set, not the PHB, that was sold in toy stores and supermarkets and Target stores and was considered the 'mass market' version of the game. The AD&D PHB was for dedicated fans only (which is why it said 'Advanced' right there in the title). So don't assume that more people must necessarily be playing D&D now than did in the 80s just because the PHB has higher average yearly sales numbers. Without seeing the actual sales figures and being able to compare them to the actual sales figures from the 80s for the PH + the Basic Set, such a comparison is nothing but meaningless hype and spin.

 

[warlord]

D&D was cool in the 80's thats when it peaked we D&D players are all "nerds" and "Cultists" now. Also we're unfortuneatly still satanic too.

 

[replicant2]

I can only speak from personal experience on this one. Back in the 80's I could shop for RPG's at two local hobby shops in the Woburn and Burlington malls. Both are gone now. I had a bookstore in my hometown that sold D&D books and a smattering of miniatures. It's gone now. I can distinctly recall seeing the Basic D&D box set and some hardcovers sold in the big department and toy stores, but this is no longer the case.

So in my opinion, the popularity of D&D has shrunk since the 80's. In the end though, I'd like to see some hard numbers if someone can come up with them.

 

[Orius]

But has the hobby now superceded the 1980s in terms of numbers of players, or has it simply returned to a state of relative health?

I don't know, maybe it has. Of course maybe the game simple had more coverage during the 80's what with the Satanism scare and all, where as today, it's not really big news.

Also, back in the '80s many of the players were teens. Those teens have grown up now, and have families. How many of them play D&D with their kids?

I think the two are related: the Satanism scare was in part fueled by parents who didn't understand the game. But now that you've got families playing, the parents played D&D back in the day, and aren't afraid of it. As a result, D&D is becoming respectable, and the player base is growing.

 

[Numion]

For one thing, consider that everybody who plays 3E has bought at least 1 PHB in the last 4 years, and many people have bought 2 (3.0 and 3.5), whereas in the 80s someone who bought a PHB in 1981 (or, for that matter, in 1978) likely saw no reason to buy another (at least until 2E was released in 1989), even if he was playing the game the entire time in-between.

Then how do you explain my groups 7 players when we have only 2 (3.0E) PHBs?

So don't assume that more people must necessarily be playing D&D now than did in the 80s just because the PHB has higher average yearly sales numbers. Without seeing the actual sales figures and being able to compare them to the actual sales figures from the 80s for the PH + the Basic Set, such a comparison is nothing but meaningless hype and spin.

Sales numbers are the best indicator for number of players anybody has.

 

[diaglo]

How about we just say that the '80s were the Golden Age of 1e D&D?



Of course it was all downhill once we got away from three little books in a box.

diaglo "d02 ain't D&D" Ooi