Pathfinder 1E Pathfindering d20 Modern: Forked Thread: d20 modern Failed.

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't know that I agree with this.

All of those games offer alternatives to d20M, but I don't any of them replaced it.

I wasn't saying they replaced D20, I was saying they "filled the remaining need for modern D20 system based gaming left over by D20 Modern." IOW, they filled the gaps that WotC could have filled had they actually thrown the kind of support into Modern that they threw into D&D.

There is really no reason why D20 Modern couldn't have had a Spy, Supers, Space Opera and Hard Sci-Fi settings, possibly with some setting-specific rules alterations a la GURPS or HERO. Even the settings that got hardcover setting books- Dark*Matter and Urban Arcana- were woefully undersupported.

Instead, the 3PPs got in there...and got it done pretty well in several cases.

 

[Krensky]

Bollocks.

If I wanted to create a Theban hoplite, a Burgundian knight, a Bowery thug, or an NFL-player-turned-bodyguard, every one of those is covered by the Srtong Hero. That's about as defining an archetype as one can hope for from a roleplaying game.

Strong Hero is not an archetype.

It's not specific enough and only says one thing about the character. If I say that someone is an example of the Strongman archetype, or the Gentle Giant, it implies an appearance, personality, etc. If I say he's a Strong Hero, it just tells you he's strong.

Archetypes are things like the Mother, the Child, the Monarch, the Trickster, the Kind Mentor, the Orphan, etc. The are universal and instantly recognizable.

As for you examples, a hoplite is more likely a Dedicated Hero (or an ordinary). Holding the phalanx was what a hoplite did. Strength was far less important then holding formation and not drifting to the right. The other two could be anything, because the six basic classes don't really tell you anything. The linebacker could be Strong, or Tough, or Dedicated. Archetypes are also overrated in gaming, especially since most people don't understand what they are or how they work.

 

[The Shaman]

Strong Hero is not an archetype.

It's not specific enough and only says one thing about the character. If I say that someone is an example of the Strongman archetype, or the Gentle Giant, it implies an appearance, personality, etc. If I say he's a Strong Hero, it just tells you he's strong.

Archetypes are things like the Mother, the Child, the Monarch, the Trickster, the Kind Mentor, the Orphan, etc. The are universal and instantly recognizable.

We must agree to disagree on this.