Paladin of Bahamut
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theyak
First Post
Strangely enough, this is the current character I am playing in our FR campaign.
Started off as a Sorcerer, found enlightenment in the wisdom of Bahamut and became a Paladin of Bahamut, then (after discussing it with the DM) started in Dragon Disciple (silver, gold is just a rort) whilst freely jumping back to Paladin. Almost 21st level now with Sor1/Pal9/DrD10 - no where near the most powerful 'fighter' in the party, but fun as hell to play! We are pretty much hunting down and trying to destroy the Ciult of the Dragon at the moment so it works perfectly in this scenario.
Started off as a Sorcerer, found enlightenment in the wisdom of Bahamut and became a Paladin of Bahamut, then (after discussing it with the DM) started in Dragon Disciple (silver, gold is just a rort) whilst freely jumping back to Paladin. Almost 21st level now with Sor1/Pal9/DrD10 - no where near the most powerful 'fighter' in the party, but fun as hell to play! We are pretty much hunting down and trying to destroy the Ciult of the Dragon at the moment so it works perfectly in this scenario.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Re: Re: -
I was afraid of this. I just want to point out now, that Faiths and Pantheons, while a mega-collection of deities, does NOT encompass the entirety of the gods that can be worshipped on the world of Abeir-Toril (the planet the Forgotten Realms exists on), or even on the continent of Faerun.
One of the first things to fall through the cracks due to space is racial gods of races that aren't that prevalent, including dragons. If you read Draconomicon and Cult of the Dragon (both 2E products; the latter of which can be freely downloaded here: http://wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr9547.zip ), you'll get the lowdown on the dragon deities on Faerun. Bahamut is in there, so he is indeed officially a Forgotten Realms god.
That said, the answer to the question of whether or not Bahamut can have paladins depends on, iirc, a few different criteria (in the most stringent sense).
There was a question in a recent Sage Advice about clerics of deities of other races (sorry, I can't recall the exact issue...302, 202 maybe?), and as an aside, the Sage mentions (iirc) that other deities can have paladins of the character is LG, and the god is of the right alignment (LN, LG, NG). So that should be okay since Bahamut is LG himself.
Deities & Demigods has the stipulation that gods can only grant divine spells beyond cleric (e.g. Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells) if the deity has at least one level in any of those classes themselves. I don't recall what classes Bahamut had, if any (or if he was even in the book!) however.
Note that if Bahamut thusly cannot grant Paladin spells, it doesn't mean that you can't have a Paladin dedicated to Bahamut, it just means that that Paladin worships Bahamut, but is getting his spells from some other source (where is up to your DM).
Hope that helps!
Derren said:
I was afraid of this. I just want to point out now, that Faiths and Pantheons, while a mega-collection of deities, does NOT encompass the entirety of the gods that can be worshipped on the world of Abeir-Toril (the planet the Forgotten Realms exists on), or even on the continent of Faerun.
One of the first things to fall through the cracks due to space is racial gods of races that aren't that prevalent, including dragons. If you read Draconomicon and Cult of the Dragon (both 2E products; the latter of which can be freely downloaded here: http://wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr9547.zip ), you'll get the lowdown on the dragon deities on Faerun. Bahamut is in there, so he is indeed officially a Forgotten Realms god.
That said, the answer to the question of whether or not Bahamut can have paladins depends on, iirc, a few different criteria (in the most stringent sense).
There was a question in a recent Sage Advice about clerics of deities of other races (sorry, I can't recall the exact issue...302, 202 maybe?), and as an aside, the Sage mentions (iirc) that other deities can have paladins of the character is LG, and the god is of the right alignment (LN, LG, NG). So that should be okay since Bahamut is LG himself.
Deities & Demigods has the stipulation that gods can only grant divine spells beyond cleric (e.g. Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells) if the deity has at least one level in any of those classes themselves. I don't recall what classes Bahamut had, if any (or if he was even in the book!) however.
Note that if Bahamut thusly cannot grant Paladin spells, it doesn't mean that you can't have a Paladin dedicated to Bahamut, it just means that that Paladin worships Bahamut, but is getting his spells from some other source (where is up to your DM).
Hope that helps!
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theyak
First Post
Re: Re: Re: -
This actually came up in the discussion and it was agreed that even though Bahamut doesn't have levels of any classes (listed only as a colossal dragon in D&D) he could therefore grant divine spells as per the Good diety clause in the PHB (if you want to play a good cleric of a non-specific god, the Good pantheon supplies you with spells).
We have also applied this to Blackguards of Tiamat to balance it out a bit.
Alzrius said:
This actually came up in the discussion and it was agreed that even though Bahamut doesn't have levels of any classes (listed only as a colossal dragon in D&D) he could therefore grant divine spells as per the Good diety clause in the PHB (if you want to play a good cleric of a non-specific god, the Good pantheon supplies you with spells).
We have also applied this to Blackguards of Tiamat to balance it out a bit.
Re: Re: Re: Re: -
I would agree, but not because of the "Good Pantheon" clause, but because WotC didn´t really put a lot of effort in Bahamuts &6 Tiamats D&DG Stats. They only took the MotP stats of them and slapped the DR and some SAs onto them without regard to any rules the D&DG presents. (eg. Tiamat couldn´t have Annihilating Strike because she´s only DR 10). They didn´t even reconsider their "rank" but took their 1 Ed lesser deity "rank" and copied it while the made the god of kobolds an intermediate god. (Which doesn´t sound right to me)
And the MotP only took the Bahamut & Tiamat write up from an Dragon Magazine where they were displayed as 3 Ed scoop.
theyak said:
I would agree, but not because of the "Good Pantheon" clause, but because WotC didn´t really put a lot of effort in Bahamuts &6 Tiamats D&DG Stats. They only took the MotP stats of them and slapped the DR and some SAs onto them without regard to any rules the D&DG presents. (eg. Tiamat couldn´t have Annihilating Strike because she´s only DR 10). They didn´t even reconsider their "rank" but took their 1 Ed lesser deity "rank" and copied it while the made the god of kobolds an intermediate god. (Which doesn´t sound right to me)
And the MotP only took the Bahamut & Tiamat write up from an Dragon Magazine where they were displayed as 3 Ed scoop.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Re: Re: Re: Re: -
The "good deity clause" is basically, it seems to me, just another way of saying what I said about Bahamut granting Paladin spells: if he can't, he has another god do it for him. Its quite likely that most deities, via either interpersonal divine politics, or the Divine Compact, have deals where other gods do favors for them in exchange for other favors. That almost certainly would be the case for Tiamat and Blackguard spells (though, iirc, Deities & Demigods doesn't mention needing levels in a prestige class to grant divine spells to those with that PrC. Just Druid, Paladin, and Ranger spells).
Applying that to Bahamut however, seems redundant. Iirc, Deities & Demigods says that any god can grant clerical spells, and does not need levels in cleric to do so. There's no need to put him under the "good deity clause".
theyak said:
The "good deity clause" is basically, it seems to me, just another way of saying what I said about Bahamut granting Paladin spells: if he can't, he has another god do it for him. Its quite likely that most deities, via either interpersonal divine politics, or the Divine Compact, have deals where other gods do favors for them in exchange for other favors. That almost certainly would be the case for Tiamat and Blackguard spells (though, iirc, Deities & Demigods doesn't mention needing levels in a prestige class to grant divine spells to those with that PrC. Just Druid, Paladin, and Ranger spells).
Applying that to Bahamut however, seems redundant. Iirc, Deities & Demigods says that any god can grant clerical spells, and does not need levels in cleric to do so. There's no need to put him under the "good deity clause".
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Hmmm, this is getting a little complicated for me.
I've one more question. I believe normal D&D 3e goes to 20th level, so that would explain why every buddy sais sor1/pal9/drag.dec10 and not sor5/pal15/drag.dec10. I know it is possible though to pass the 20 levels. How does that work?
Hmmm, this is getting a little complicated for me.
I've one more question. I believe normal D&D 3e goes to 20th level, so that would explain why every buddy sais sor1/pal9/drag.dec10 and not sor5/pal15/drag.dec10. I know it is possible though to pass the 20 levels. How does that work?
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
The question of going beyond twenty levels is one for your DM to decide. Ultimately though, the question of gaming beyond level 20 is covered in the Epic Level handbook.
Your DM may say that mortals can progress to any possible level, with their being no limits on how mighty they can grow.
Or he may say level 20 represents the pinnacle of mortal achievement, and that in order to go beyond that, you need outside assitance. Such a scenario was presented several months ago in the "Epic Level" themed issues of Dragon and Dungeon, with the Dragon part (iirc) presenting an artifact called the Shadar Pool, that allowed a 20th level character entering the pool to progress beyond level 20.
Your DM may say that mortals can progress to any possible level, with their being no limits on how mighty they can grow.
Or he may say level 20 represents the pinnacle of mortal achievement, and that in order to go beyond that, you need outside assitance. Such a scenario was presented several months ago in the "Epic Level" themed issues of Dragon and Dungeon, with the Dragon part (iirc) presenting an artifact called the Shadar Pool, that allowed a 20th level character entering the pool to progress beyond level 20.
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