New campaign, Core + ONE acessory

[Mercule]

A different suggestion - see if the Cleric player would be happy to try the rules for Spontaneous Divine Casting instead.

This was going to be my suggestion. That's what I use, IMC. Divine casters are free to pick from pretty much anything, but those are pretty binding choices.

Non-PHB (and maybe PHB2, no one has really asked) spells are considered my lazy-DM field for what NPCs may have developed on their own. I hand them out in treasure, etc. PCs are also free to look at the supplemental books for things they may want to research and do so.

Really, it's a matter of making a choice of having the flavor of some spells being rare and exotic without me (or the players, for that matter) have to expend the effort of creating unique spells. I guess I kinda look at the supplimental spells in the same light some people look at pre-statted NPCs. They are a tool to be used to make my life easier.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Actually, I'm not the DM in the game I mentioned. The DM in that game has imposed some restricitons, though not yet on the paladin I mentioned. Probably because he is far more likely to minmax his way through the SpC than any of us.

Even when I run a campaign, I tend to err on the side of allowing pretty much anything that's not obviously bad design. If and when problems arise, the group deals with them. Maybe I just have too much faith in the WotC design team.

I'm not convinced the WotC design team expects you to just give all the divine classes all those spells on their lists automatically, actually.

But as to having faith in them--they definitely put out broken things less often than almost any other publisher, but remember they did put out Complete Divine. And the Wraithstrike spell shudder.

 

[buzz]

I'm not convinced the WotC design team expects you to just give all the divine classes all those spells on their lists automatically, actually.

Possibly. It'd be nice if, as Cam Banks mentioned about AE, there was a system in D&D that made this intent overt, if that's the case.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Possibly. It'd be nice if, as Cam Banks mentioned about AE, there was a system in D&D that made this intent overt, if that's the case.

Yeah, that would be awesome. The spell rarity of second edition was a nice touch, for instance. As a GM who came to the game just after the 2e Complete Wizard's Spell Compendium, it was very useful to me in determining how to place the rarity of the spells (plus I absolutely loved the appendices in the back that gave examples of different traditions of Wizardry and which spells they would choose)

 

[Piratecat]

It isn't fair to give the Cleric every new spell that ever comes out automatically. Make the cleric pay gold to add the spell to her list just like the Wizard does. Otherwise, in a game with all books allowed, Clerics would have like 20 times as many spells per level as the Wizard, for instance.

As folks have said, the best solution I've found is to keep the cleric spell list fixed at the number of spells in the PHB, and let him swap out spells on a one for one basis if he wants something from the Spell Compendium.

I, also, would make the SC the one accessory. Actually I wouldn't stop at one - I'd add PHB2 as well - but you know what I mean.

Buzz, I fundamentally disagree with you about whether allowing unfettered access to cleric spells is unbalancing. Here's how I see it: the cleric (already probably the strongest class) has a variety of spells in the PHB, some of which are strong and some of which are weak, and which have a certain cross-section of utility. By freely adding any new cleric spell that is published, you allow the player an unlimited ability to increase the utility of their spell selection; they can still do all the stuff they could before, but now they have a whole lot more things that they can do, and there's no tradeoff or cost for that additional flexibility and power. That's a real concern for me.

There's a second reason too, truth be told: allowing unlimited access to spells can create a quagmire of indecision come spell preparation time.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The best solution I've found is to keep the cleric spell list fixed at the number of spells in the PHB, and let him swap out spells on a one for one basis if he wants something from the Spell Compendium.

I, also, would make the SC the one accessory. Actually I wouldn't stop at one - I'd add PHB2 as well - but you know what I mean.

I agree with both of these. But I'd also allow the Cleric to pay for meditation and reflection to add additional spells in above and beyond the number they traditionally have.

Actually, I think someone mentioned just your suggestion as the 'Piratecat' method a bit upthread

 

[Piratecat]

Actually, I think someone mentioned just your suggestion as the 'Piratecat' method a bit upthread

I noticed - and edited my post accordingly!

 

[Rystil Arden]

I noticed - and edited my post accordingly!

Ah yes. I completely agree with your edit--you said exactly what I wanted to say in all my posts between 15 and 28 in a clearer way.

 

[HandofMystra]

I think that it sounds like a huge advantage on paper, but I'm not convinced that it's really an issue in actual play (though I'm not denying you may be correct). I have to imagine that all but the most rigorous, mind-like-a-trap player is going to experience enough "analysis paralysis" given 100 spells per level that they'll just end up using a few tried-and-true additions to their typical assortment.

My Living Greyhawk cleric just got to fifth level, He can now use third level spells. I am thinking (I have never had a cleric this high level before) of packing Ring of Blades and Energy Vortex as my standard damaging spells they are both from the SpC. Thus my PC is quite different than if I just had core access.

 

[shilsen]

Hooray for sensible players and sensible DMs getting things hammered out on ENWorld without flames, rants, and raves!

Damnit - stop encouraging them! Next thing tyou know, DMs and players won't be coming here to provide one-sided versions of their problems and vilifying those that disagree, and what's the fun in that?