Thinking about the prevalence of plastic surgery in society, I'm wondering what sort of magical resources there would be in D&D for someone who wanted cosmetic surgery. Instead of spells like Change Self or Hat of Disguise, this would be a one-time spell that would change something permanently. Any thoughts?
Magical Cosmetic Surgery
- Thread starter phindar
- Start date
In my mind there is no doubt that almost all rich persons would have a Hat of Disguise equivalent item solely to improve their looks.
Some would go to even greater effort and get permanently altered or polymorphed to achieve physical beauty.
In fact I believe that if magic was real most of it would be used for much more common effects than what is covered by D&D rules. Magic to clean, wash, cook, plow and so on would be immensly popular.
Some would go to even greater effort and get permanently altered or polymorphed to achieve physical beauty.
In fact I believe that if magic was real most of it would be used for much more common effects than what is covered by D&D rules. Magic to clean, wash, cook, plow and so on would be immensly popular.
And in the end, that's where science triumphs over magic. Gadgets don't cost Exp to build. 
Well, what, Alter Self's 2nd level? Or better yet, a permanent one-time version of the Changeling's Minor Change ability would probably slot in nicely at 3rd level if you wanted to expand the use of cosmetic magic in your game. Buck up the casting time to something ludicrous like 10 minutes to an hour so it can't be used on the fly and, of course, it doesn't change your clothes. Maybe provide a circumstance bonus or penalty if the caster is going for a particularly beautiful, hideous or frightening form to Diplomacy/Intimidation. Target would have to be 'one willing or unconscious creature' or the equivalent, range touch.
And, I believe that repeated castings of the Prestidigitation spell would do for the magical elimination of household chores, which would certainly let a canny wizard rake in the money. Just create and sell a bunch of wands of prestidigitation, rechargeable... or maybe something simpler for a Commoner to use... probably have to be a wondrous item, but with charges so that they have to keep coming back.
Well, what, Alter Self's 2nd level? Or better yet, a permanent one-time version of the Changeling's Minor Change ability would probably slot in nicely at 3rd level if you wanted to expand the use of cosmetic magic in your game. Buck up the casting time to something ludicrous like 10 minutes to an hour so it can't be used on the fly and, of course, it doesn't change your clothes. Maybe provide a circumstance bonus or penalty if the caster is going for a particularly beautiful, hideous or frightening form to Diplomacy/Intimidation. Target would have to be 'one willing or unconscious creature' or the equivalent, range touch.
And, I believe that repeated castings of the Prestidigitation spell would do for the magical elimination of household chores, which would certainly let a canny wizard rake in the money. Just create and sell a bunch of wands of prestidigitation, rechargeable... or maybe something simpler for a Commoner to use... probably have to be a wondrous item, but with charges so that they have to keep coming back.
Last edited:
Jack Simth
First Post
A trained hireling costs 3 sp/day, Core RAW.
The magic item creation guidelines would put a single-use Prestidigitation item, useable by anyone, at 25 gp, market (12.5 gp, market, for a scroll).
Which is better: Prestidigitation, once, for an hour, or a trained hireling for 83 days (24 gp, 9 sp; assuming the trained hireling can feed, cloth, and house himself; if you have to hire an inkeeper to feed and house him at Common rates, you only get 22 days; Poor rates, and you get 41 days; Good rates, and you get 8 days - all with some change leftover for things like, say, clothing)?
An at-will item of Prestidigitation estimates at 900 gp, command-word. 10 trained hirelings, with common tavern rates for food and shelter, and for basically the same price, you get an entire staff for 81 days.
As for actual cosmetic surgery, try:
1) Sanctum Spell Flesh to Stone (outside your Sanctum, cast at minimum caster level, so it qualifies for Break Enchantment)
2) Fabricate an appropriet mold.
3) Place statue over mold and cast Rock to Mud
4) Squeeze subject into mold, and cast Dispel Magic
5) Cast Break Enchantment on subject until it takes.
Flesh is warped, all spells are instant. After the lingering aura of transmutation goes away, there is no longer any quantifiable trace of what was done.
Assuming, that is, the subject survives. Try with barnyard animals, first (to avoid murder charges, just in case).
And, if you're evil, and it works, hey - unintelligent, trainable animals with an arbitrary shape! After training, you could, say, sell them to a house of ill repute.
Edit: Ah streamlinging:
1) Sanctum Spell Flesh to Stone outside your Sanctum, minimum caster level, qualifies for Break Enchanmebnt
2) Heightened Fabricate on the statue (so that it does not qualify for Break Enchantment
3) Break Enchantment, highest caster level, until the Flesh to Stone is removed.
All Instant spells, nothing with a listed chance of death. Your Craft check is their new appearence.
The magic item creation guidelines would put a single-use Prestidigitation item, useable by anyone, at 25 gp, market (12.5 gp, market, for a scroll).
Which is better: Prestidigitation, once, for an hour, or a trained hireling for 83 days (24 gp, 9 sp; assuming the trained hireling can feed, cloth, and house himself; if you have to hire an inkeeper to feed and house him at Common rates, you only get 22 days; Poor rates, and you get 41 days; Good rates, and you get 8 days - all with some change leftover for things like, say, clothing)?
An at-will item of Prestidigitation estimates at 900 gp, command-word. 10 trained hirelings, with common tavern rates for food and shelter, and for basically the same price, you get an entire staff for 81 days.
As for actual cosmetic surgery, try:
1) Sanctum Spell Flesh to Stone (outside your Sanctum, cast at minimum caster level, so it qualifies for Break Enchantment)
2) Fabricate an appropriet mold.
3) Place statue over mold and cast Rock to Mud
4) Squeeze subject into mold, and cast Dispel Magic
5) Cast Break Enchantment on subject until it takes.
Flesh is warped, all spells are instant. After the lingering aura of transmutation goes away, there is no longer any quantifiable trace of what was done.
Assuming, that is, the subject survives. Try with barnyard animals, first (to avoid murder charges, just in case).
And, if you're evil, and it works, hey - unintelligent, trainable animals with an arbitrary shape! After training, you could, say, sell them to a house of ill repute.
Edit: Ah streamlinging:
1) Sanctum Spell Flesh to Stone outside your Sanctum, minimum caster level, qualifies for Break Enchanmebnt
2) Heightened Fabricate on the statue (so that it does not qualify for Break Enchantment
3) Break Enchantment, highest caster level, until the Flesh to Stone is removed.
All Instant spells, nothing with a listed chance of death. Your Craft check is their new appearence.
Last edited:
Which compells a good argument for why magic hasn't yet replaced the common worker in household tasks, however the rules are really geared toward adventurers and small markets rather than mass production of magical items, which games designers really do want strictly limited.
About the only thing I disagree with in your assessment is that washing dishes and sweeping floors doesn't really require much in the way of training; I can't see peasants, indentured servants and other slaves getting paid a whole 3sp a day, but then that doesn't help my case, so forget I mentioned it.
But is it so hard to imagine a noble house in Eberron that uses magic rather than untrustworthy servants? Or a future Eberron where even commoners have access to prestidigitation? Particularly with feats and PrCs that reduce the cost of magical item creation? Not to mention forges that create sentient living constructs, flying ships and magical nuklear weapons?
To examine the at-will prestidigitation item again, at first glance 900gp looks like alot of money because it is. This puts it in the 'noble household convenience item' market well and truely. However, how long is this noble household going to be using this item? 900gp pays for 10 hirelings for 81 days at your estimation, that's approximately a quarter of a year (I'm too lazy to work out exactly what it is). Compare that to a one-time 900gp cost over 1 year or 100 years, or 200, or 500, or 1000! The thing doesn't conk out, it doesn't need room and board, it doesn't need to be fed or have a day off or wages and it never complains and it can be handed down generation by generation for only 900gp! It's an INSANE bargain!
The at-will version of the Prestidigitation item will never be economically feasable, however, particularly for widespread mainstream use because it has no built-in obsolescence. Rather than that, create a 5-use or 10-use rechargeable item and sell it cheap to everybody... but the catch is that you've got to come back for the recharge and you ream them on that. It's called sustainability and it works for cars, household appliances, DVDs, video game consoles, RPG books... practically everything.
Over a period of years, you'll make back the loss you took on the initial sale and then some. People will be able to work longer hours and less manpower will be spent on menial chores, commoners will have more time to enact trade unions and, to make a long story short, you'd eventually get a society much like ours.
I can only see one drawback with flesh-to-stone cosmetic surgury, assuming your DM lets it work. That is, I'd have to submit myself volintarily to a Flesh to Stone spell, and you couldn't make me willingly fail that Fort save. Now, I'm not a noble who probably has about 16 enemies waiting in the wings for a chance to place sharp, pointy, objects in my back, so if i'd feel paranoid, I can pretty much guarentee that a noble won't go for it, particularly when compared to the ease at which I could fund the research of a new spell the formulae to which could rake me in millions of gp.
About the only thing I disagree with in your assessment is that washing dishes and sweeping floors doesn't really require much in the way of training; I can't see peasants, indentured servants and other slaves getting paid a whole 3sp a day, but then that doesn't help my case, so forget I mentioned it.
But is it so hard to imagine a noble house in Eberron that uses magic rather than untrustworthy servants? Or a future Eberron where even commoners have access to prestidigitation? Particularly with feats and PrCs that reduce the cost of magical item creation? Not to mention forges that create sentient living constructs, flying ships and magical nuklear weapons?
To examine the at-will prestidigitation item again, at first glance 900gp looks like alot of money because it is. This puts it in the 'noble household convenience item' market well and truely. However, how long is this noble household going to be using this item? 900gp pays for 10 hirelings for 81 days at your estimation, that's approximately a quarter of a year (I'm too lazy to work out exactly what it is). Compare that to a one-time 900gp cost over 1 year or 100 years, or 200, or 500, or 1000! The thing doesn't conk out, it doesn't need room and board, it doesn't need to be fed or have a day off or wages and it never complains and it can be handed down generation by generation for only 900gp! It's an INSANE bargain!
The at-will version of the Prestidigitation item will never be economically feasable, however, particularly for widespread mainstream use because it has no built-in obsolescence. Rather than that, create a 5-use or 10-use rechargeable item and sell it cheap to everybody... but the catch is that you've got to come back for the recharge and you ream them on that. It's called sustainability and it works for cars, household appliances, DVDs, video game consoles, RPG books... practically everything.
Over a period of years, you'll make back the loss you took on the initial sale and then some. People will be able to work longer hours and less manpower will be spent on menial chores, commoners will have more time to enact trade unions and, to make a long story short, you'd eventually get a society much like ours.
I can only see one drawback with flesh-to-stone cosmetic surgury, assuming your DM lets it work. That is, I'd have to submit myself volintarily to a Flesh to Stone spell, and you couldn't make me willingly fail that Fort save. Now, I'm not a noble who probably has about 16 enemies waiting in the wings for a chance to place sharp, pointy, objects in my back, so if i'd feel paranoid, I can pretty much guarentee that a noble won't go for it, particularly when compared to the ease at which I could fund the research of a new spell the formulae to which could rake me in millions of gp.
Last edited:
Jack Simth
First Post
Catches:
Prestidigitation:
You still need someone running it. It's limited to a 1 foot cube per round for cleaning (and can't manipulate anything weighing over 1 pound - so you can't, say, move a lot of toys around, or make the bed, or iron clothes).
In an hour, someone working with Prestidigitation can clean 600 one-foot cubes (10 rounds per minute, 60 rounds per hour). And someone has to sit there and use it for that, for the entire hour. If you've got a 2,000 square foot house (small, really, for a noble) you'll need four charges (at least - this calculation doesn't address the need to clean walls, dishes, doorknobs, clothes, et cetera). You probably don't need to do this every day, though, so we'll assume for the moment that you actually need to use about 1 charge per day.
A 50 charge wand of Prestidigitation runs for 350 gp. So someone with UMD, or Prestidigitation on their class list, gets 50 days worth, at 7 gp/day for cleaning only. If you ignore XP costs and sell at your materials costs, that's 3.5 gp/day. Guidelines, that's about as effecient as it gets for a charged item. Meanwhile, a trained servant (who can also make the bed, cook meals [but not flavor them as well], tend the fire, whatever) and doesn't require much work on your part, housed in a common quality inn (without even bulk rates - this is basically paying for a night at a motel and some fast-food meals every day, in modern terms) runs 11 silvers per day, market. A third the price of a 3rd level Wizard with Craft Wand who's throwing away his XP and selling at cost. If you find a way to get the cost of charges down to a silver or two, it might work.... but that requires some DM fiat, or an item with a limitation (under the Cursed items section of the DMG/SRD).
Surgery:
Yep, it is dangerous. But then, modern surgery can kill you, too. People have had absolute disaters with doctors on cosmetic surgery who goofed - a little missed dirt on the wand used to suck fat out, and people have found their skin sloughing off after a few weeks of intense pain. People are put under anesthetic before such proceedures, and are Unconcious and Helpless; simple matter to take a knife to the subject's throat, or simply "accidentally" cut a very important vein, artery, or nerve if you've been bribed sufficiently that it doesn't matter if you'll never have a job again.
A researched spell used to change your shape has the same issues - you are deliberately letting a caster put a spell on you that changes your body, permanently. Polymorph Any Object will do it... but the subject can't be certain he's not going to be a slug (or a fused lump of helpless flesh, or wanted for murder, or wanted back at the brothel, or...) in six seconds (and a squished slug in 12), unless he trusts the caster. If the spell is researched such that it can't hide identity/really hurt someone, then you still have to be able to identify it as the spell you're looking for. If you can cast it yourself, sure... provided you didn't accidentally get a cursed scroll.
The way around all such issues is consequences - the doctor who loses an important patient in a routine operation doesn't just lose his license - the "insurance agents" assasinate him as part of the contract. Bloodthirsty, yes, but ultimately about the only way a noble is going to be sure of such things. Paranoia is paranoia. The exact form doesn't matter.
Insurance doesn't help if they're using the polymorph spells to replace you, rather than kill you, though.
Prestidigitation:
You still need someone running it. It's limited to a 1 foot cube per round for cleaning (and can't manipulate anything weighing over 1 pound - so you can't, say, move a lot of toys around, or make the bed, or iron clothes).
In an hour, someone working with Prestidigitation can clean 600 one-foot cubes (10 rounds per minute, 60 rounds per hour). And someone has to sit there and use it for that, for the entire hour. If you've got a 2,000 square foot house (small, really, for a noble) you'll need four charges (at least - this calculation doesn't address the need to clean walls, dishes, doorknobs, clothes, et cetera). You probably don't need to do this every day, though, so we'll assume for the moment that you actually need to use about 1 charge per day.
A 50 charge wand of Prestidigitation runs for 350 gp. So someone with UMD, or Prestidigitation on their class list, gets 50 days worth, at 7 gp/day for cleaning only. If you ignore XP costs and sell at your materials costs, that's 3.5 gp/day. Guidelines, that's about as effecient as it gets for a charged item. Meanwhile, a trained servant (who can also make the bed, cook meals [but not flavor them as well], tend the fire, whatever) and doesn't require much work on your part, housed in a common quality inn (without even bulk rates - this is basically paying for a night at a motel and some fast-food meals every day, in modern terms) runs 11 silvers per day, market. A third the price of a 3rd level Wizard with Craft Wand who's throwing away his XP and selling at cost. If you find a way to get the cost of charges down to a silver or two, it might work.... but that requires some DM fiat, or an item with a limitation (under the Cursed items section of the DMG/SRD).
Surgery:
Yep, it is dangerous. But then, modern surgery can kill you, too. People have had absolute disaters with doctors on cosmetic surgery who goofed - a little missed dirt on the wand used to suck fat out, and people have found their skin sloughing off after a few weeks of intense pain. People are put under anesthetic before such proceedures, and are Unconcious and Helpless; simple matter to take a knife to the subject's throat, or simply "accidentally" cut a very important vein, artery, or nerve if you've been bribed sufficiently that it doesn't matter if you'll never have a job again.
A researched spell used to change your shape has the same issues - you are deliberately letting a caster put a spell on you that changes your body, permanently. Polymorph Any Object will do it... but the subject can't be certain he's not going to be a slug (or a fused lump of helpless flesh, or wanted for murder, or wanted back at the brothel, or...) in six seconds (and a squished slug in 12), unless he trusts the caster. If the spell is researched such that it can't hide identity/really hurt someone, then you still have to be able to identify it as the spell you're looking for. If you can cast it yourself, sure... provided you didn't accidentally get a cursed scroll.
The way around all such issues is consequences - the doctor who loses an important patient in a routine operation doesn't just lose his license - the "insurance agents" assasinate him as part of the contract. Bloodthirsty, yes, but ultimately about the only way a noble is going to be sure of such things. Paranoia is paranoia. The exact form doesn't matter.
Insurance doesn't help if they're using the polymorph spells to replace you, rather than kill you, though.
-sigh-
Presto:
Yes, one person to run it, rather than 10+. That is a substantial saving.
The weight limit is a problem if you want to stick to the letter of the law, I personally don't think it really matters since you're not actually trying to do anything violent. It's just cleaning, it doesn't matter in the same way a fireball matters.
If you remember my original post, I said it couldn't be a wand.
I personally think you're being too hide-bound to the rules which are, after all, there to support the story rather than the other way arround. Oh, by the way, that's a rule too, it's in the DMG. It doesn't really matter if it's prestidigitation or not, or an entirely new spell or if you have to create an entirely new magic object for it... it's just cleaning, nothing serious. There's no need to throw an entire idea out the window because of one picky little detail.
Surgury:
Yes, but this is where magic is better than science. Why take any risk at all when you don't have to? Heck, the Hat of Disguise is a better option than being turned to stone! And for the same reason, I wouldn't subject myself to Polymorph Any Object... plus, it's an 8th level spell which costs a ton of gold and you'd have to disturb an Archmage to get it.
Which brings me back to my first conclusion: new spell needed. Heck, is there any real reason why there shouldn't be an Alter Other spell? How many faerie tales and stories have people turning from one person to another with spells cast by people who actually can't demolish an entire castle single-handedly? Would it really break the game? No, not if you think it through.
It's yet another good idea, I see no reason to plague it with problems that it doesn't need.
Presto:
Yes, one person to run it, rather than 10+. That is a substantial saving.
The weight limit is a problem if you want to stick to the letter of the law, I personally don't think it really matters since you're not actually trying to do anything violent. It's just cleaning, it doesn't matter in the same way a fireball matters.
If you remember my original post, I said it couldn't be a wand.
I personally think you're being too hide-bound to the rules which are, after all, there to support the story rather than the other way arround. Oh, by the way, that's a rule too, it's in the DMG. It doesn't really matter if it's prestidigitation or not, or an entirely new spell or if you have to create an entirely new magic object for it... it's just cleaning, nothing serious. There's no need to throw an entire idea out the window because of one picky little detail.
Surgury:
Yes, but this is where magic is better than science. Why take any risk at all when you don't have to? Heck, the Hat of Disguise is a better option than being turned to stone! And for the same reason, I wouldn't subject myself to Polymorph Any Object... plus, it's an 8th level spell which costs a ton of gold and you'd have to disturb an Archmage to get it.
Which brings me back to my first conclusion: new spell needed. Heck, is there any real reason why there shouldn't be an Alter Other spell? How many faerie tales and stories have people turning from one person to another with spells cast by people who actually can't demolish an entire castle single-handedly? Would it really break the game? No, not if you think it through.
It's yet another good idea, I see no reason to plague it with problems that it doesn't need.
Last edited:
Dread Polack
Explorer
I'm going to give a simple answer: I think that people will go to similar lengths that people do today to appear young and beautiful. Hats, or other items of Disguise would be utilized often, and often never taken off. Scrolls would be bought by adepts and 1st level casters for this purpose, and Permanency would be applied to some sort of spell developed to make the subject prettier.
Dread Polack
Dread Polack
