Magic Items - What do the rules assume a character has by level?

[Mercurius]

I'm working on a house rule for our campaign and I'm trying to understand something. What do the rules assume a character has in terms of magic items at different levels?

There are three main bonuses slots: weapon/implement (attack/damage), armor (AC), neck (Defenses). I would add a secondary weapon/implement in the roster of what a character is assumed to have as a base magic item "wardrobe." Actually, a character may have any number of wondrous items, potions, and other doodads, but in terms of bonused items that a character "must" have in order to stay competitive, it is 3-4 items; I'm saying 4, because many characters will have a ranged and a melee option.

So if we every character, at least once they get into mid-Heroic tier, has at least these four basic items. But what do the rules assume the items' bonuses are at different levels? I can think of four rules that give us some kind of information:


First of all, as we all know magic item bonuses go up every five levels so that items exist in "bonus tiers": +1 is levels 1-5, +2 levels 6-10, +3 levels 11-15, +4 levels 16-20, +5 levels 21-25, and +6 levels 26-30.

Then you have the Inherent Bonuses optional rule whereby a characters attack, damage, AC, and Defenses go up one point every five levels, starting at 4th (+1), 9th (+2), 14th (+3), 19th (+4), 24th (+5), and 29th (+6).

Thirdly, if you look at the treasure parcels in the DMG (pages 126-129), during 8-10 encounters which comprise a level of play, a party of five characters is assumed to have found 10 treasure parcels that includes four magic items: One four levels higher, one three levels higher, one two levels higher, and one one level higher. This means that it is assume that at least one character has a magic item four levels higher than they are.

Finally, the rules for starting PCs at higher level (DMG, p. 143) recommend giving a PC three magic items, one below their level, one of their level, and one a level higher.

All four of these rules give different information. On one hand the treasure parcels assume that during each level, a character in the party has an item four levels higher; assuming that the character getting that four levels higher item changes every level, it also means that there is someone with an item three levels higher. It would seem that in an egalitarian campaign, a PC would get that item once every six levels, right?

But then the rules for starting PCs at a higher level are much more conservative - the highest level item is only one above.

The Inherent Bonuses rule don't give us an idea of when a PC should get an item of higher level except in that they do tell us when a PC should have a bonus in ALL slots - that is, at the latest.

So any thoughts on this? I'm basically wanting to make a chart of characters level 1-30 and see what bonused items are assumed at different levels.

 

[Destil]

Since there are no guidelines of when to give out based plussed items vs. non-plussed it's pretty much up in the air.

I would say the inherent bonuses are an assumed minimum. And that the maximum could be up to one item of level n+4 each. So the average level would be around n+1.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I would expect looking at the parcel system would handle this. Overall I would say each party member would upgrade one of the big four every level, each character. The leftover ones for each level would go for more miscellaneous items, plus all the extra ones for the fifth level.

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

So, let's think about what a newly minted five-character sixth level party has based on the treasure parcels rule. They have from each level:
1. 5, 4, 3, 2
2. 6, 5, 4, 3
3. 7, 6, 5, 4
4. 8, 7, 6, 5
5. 9, 8, 7, 6
They don't have the sixth-level items yet, because they just leveled up. They also have a pile of cash, presumably enough to buy several lower-level magic items.

That's by level of magic item:
9th: 1
8th: 2
7th: 3
6th: 4
5th: 4
4th: 3
3rd: 2
2nd: 1

That corresponds to each PC having one item 7th level-9th level (one gets 2, presumably 2 7th level items); a second item at 6th (except for the character with 2 seventh level items); and a third item at mostly 5th, but in one case (perhaps the person who had the 9th level item?) at 4th. They then have a smattering of lower level items and cash. In other words, pretty darn close to one at level +1, one at level, and one at level -1, plus some cash to buy some lower level items. A few characters do a little better, with one at level +2 and one at level, or two at level +1, and one lucky fellow gets one at level + 3. But all told, it's pretty close to the guidelines for starting above first level.

Moreover, the pattern generalizes very cleanly: except for the lowest level items, by the book a party of 5 PCs will have found at the beginning of each level:
1 item of level n+3
2 items of level n+2
3 items of level n+1
4 items of level n
4 items of each level below n
Some random cash with which some additional items will have been bought (or in some cases, with which lower level items will have been increased in power to higher level items).

So you can pretty much assume that a character will have items right around their level, level -1, or a little higher in each of their 3 core slots. People with a secondary weapon will often have that be a couple of levels behind (perhaps as much as lagging by a plus, although often it will lag by half a plus or so); they'll then have a smattering of other items.

To get concrete about that: bonuses start showing up roughly 3-4 levels before the new bonus hits (i.e. +2 weapons/armor/neck slot items start appearing around level 2-3; +3 start appearing around level 7-8); bonuses are common but not quite ubiquitous by the level at which the new bonus hits (by level 6, most characters are packing +2 items in 2 of the three slots); by a level or two past that, any character who doesn't have the new bonus is underpowered (by level 7 or 8 at the latest, almost all PCs should have a +2 in all three slots). Note that spending gold and improving prior magic items is part of how characters should make sure they hit those benchmarks.

That also means that inherent bonuses lag significantly behind the expected treasure bonuses. Not enough to break the game, but at least a full level behind the point where you would expect all characters to have that bonus in all slots, and roughly 3 levels behind the point where characters will have that bonus in most slots. That works well for a campaign that wants to give out some, but rarer, magic items. Getting a +3 sword at level 9 or 10 in an inherent bonus campaign is really sweet, because it means that for 4 or 5 levels (until level 14) you're getting an additional +1. At the same time, not getting a magic sword (or a magic cloak, or whatever) doesn't hurt you. That said, if you're doing away with magic items altogether, the math will be closer to the math in a game with magic items if you assume inherent bonuses at the start of the tier (i.e. +2 at 6th level, maybe 7th; +3 at 11th level, maybe 12th). Of course, at very low levels, the patterns are a little different. 4th level is pretty close to when +1 equipment is standard, and of course some characters probably skip directly to +2 in some slots.

 

[S'mon]

By 5th level a PC has advanced 4 levels and should have gained 3 items, with a +1 in armour, F/R/W, and weapon, plus cash to buy another +1 weapon.

The reason new PCs start with L+1 as their best item is that the AVERAGE PC gains an L+2 item over the course of a level, so when the AVERAGE PC gets to the start of the next level, their best item is one level above that level.

 

[S'mon]

Inherents: DMG2 Inherent Bonus page 138 is +1 to all Attack & Damage at 2nd level & every 5, +1 to Defenses at 4th level & every 5. That is very close to the average magic item gain; the average PC gains 1 3rd level item (+1) during the course of 1st level, 1 4th level item (+1) during the course of 2nd level, and 1 5th level item (+1) during the course of 3rd level.

 

[S'mon]

That said, if you're doing away with magic items altogether, the math will be closer to the math in a game with magic items if you assume inherent bonuses at the start of the tier (i.e. +2 at 6th level, maybe 7th; +3 at 11th level, maybe 12th).

I agree, probably the best Inherent Bonus system would be +1 at 1st, +2 at 6th, +3 at 11th, and so on. For a Conan-type no-items game that'd work great.

Edit: For Conan you can still have Masterwork armour with the additional heavy-armour '+'s, and Masterwork weapons could do additional crit dice, break enemy weapons on a '20', etc...

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

A +1 at first level is in no way reflective of the stardard parcel system (and indeed is far ahead), as normally a starting party has NO +1 items.

Note, for the below, I'm assuming there are 3 "prime" slots that need to be filled (neck, armour, weapon/implement - I'm just going to call it "weapon") and that 1 out of 4 items will be for a "non-prime" slot. I'm also assuming that it will always be the lowest magic item each level which goes in the non-prime slot.

As well, when looking at a level, it is appropriate to look at the items recieved in previous levels, that the items that will be recieved in that level - to do otherwise is to count the parcel system as one level ahead of where it actually is.

Even at the beginning of level 2 (so, end of lvl 1 magic wise), only 4 out of 5 characters will have a magic item, and its likely that only 3 will have a +1 item (say, one each of weapon, neck and armour in the party).

Its not until the beginning of level 3 (so, end of level 2) that most (4) characters will have one +1 item, and 1 will have a +2 item as well.

It not til the beginning of level 4 (so, end of level 3), that the party can be assumed to have a +1 item in the majority of their 3 prime slots... and not till the beginning of level 5 that they will have all the slots filled (though, by then, one of each slot should be +2 for each member)

So, at the beginning levels, inherent bonuses give a party a 2 to 3 level advantage over the parcel system, at least in terms of bonuses to the prime slots.


Now, however, looking at the higher levels - it shouldn't matter which, as the parcel system in "ingrained" by that point on (level 2 is wierd in that for lvl 2 to be the same the higher levels, the party would need to start with a magic items).

So, lets look at 7, as it is closest to the numbers we were looking at, so I can use my old notes.

So, at level 7 (end of level 6), all of the party should have +2 items in 2 prime slots, and a +1 item in the last. So, again, the inherent party is slightly ahead... as they are getting +2 in ALL prime slots, while a "parcel" party only has +2 in 10 of their 15 "prime" slots.

If you consider that there are 4 prime slots (so, weapon, armour, neck, other weapon), things are even worse for the parcel party (10 out of 20 are +2s at lvl. 7, rather than 10/15).


Personally I think the inherent bonuses are a nice trade off - you are getting bonuses more consistently, and sooner, but you are missing out on the other nifty magic properties unless the DM is ALSO using the parcel system (or otherwise giving out a lot of magic). From a pure math perspective, the inherent bonuses should probably be at level 3 then every 5 levels after, rather than the 2 then +5 it is now.

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

Well, the DMG has a section on creating characters of higher than first level and it recommends giving that PC whatever mundane equipment they want (within reason), and then the following:

1 magic item of their level + 1
1 magic item of their level
1 magic item of their level - 1
and cash equivalent to a magic item of their level - 1 (which they can use to buy other lower-level magic items if desired)

So perhaps that's a way of representing the average wealth per level.

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

Dr_Ruminahui: You're clearly right that at very low levels, the assumptions about what bonuses characters will have based on my calculations don't work. As you said, PCs don't start with a level 2 item, a level 1 item, a level 0(?) item, and some cash, which is what they would need to in order for the pattern to work cleanly across all levels. Instead, they start with no magic items, which means that there is a period of catching up to the average. If you're doing an inherent bonus approach, it makes sense to not have the +1 bonus hit until around level 3.

You are also correct that we should look at the progress through the previous level to figure out what the beginning of a new level looks like. Arguably, we should assume half of the new level, but I'm willing to neglect that, especially since often the biggest magic item for a level will come in a climactic fight that levels the PCs up to the next level.

However, I believe the rest of your argument is misguided. Let's look at the bonuses from levels 6-11. In each case, these bonuses are at the beginning of the level.

At level 6: A party of 5 characters has ten items of level 6-9, 4 items of level 5, 3 items of level 4, and a bunch of lower level items and gold (trash and cash). On the assumption that the trash and cash is used to get some extra bonuses, that's about 2 +2 items and one +1 item in the core 3 slots (3 +2s is possible, 1 +2 and two +1s are also possible). Average bonus: +1 2/3
At level 7: Fourteen items of level 6-10, 4 items of level 5, trash and cash. By this point, almost all of the characters will have +2 items in all of their slots. If not, they should be selling the trash and cash to pay to increase items. And note that the party should be able to increase the bonuses on its own items. Average bonus: +2.
Level 8: 1 item of level 11, 17 items of level 6-10, trash and cash. At this point, every PC should have a +2 item in all slots. Again, the trash and cash helps fill in any holes and cover the value of the non-bonus items. (If the party has a level 11, a level 10, and two level 8 wondrous items, then they use the trash to get a bunch more level 6 items to fill the holes). Also, there's a good chance (not perfect) that one of the PCs has a +3 item. Average bonus: +2 and a rounding error.
Level 9: 3 items of level 11+, 19 items of level 6-10, trash and cash. Everyone has a +2 in all slots, plus the party has ~2 +3 items (maybe 3, especially if they spend cash aggressively to promote a +2 item or something). Average bonus: +2 2/15, maybe +2 1/5.
Level 10: 6 items of level 11+, 20 items of level 6-10, trash and cash. This is an important tipping point. Now, pretty much everyone has a single +3 item, plus a +2 in everything else. Average bonus: +2 1/3.
Level 11: 10 items of level 11+, 20 items of level 6-10, trash and cash. Roughly half to two-thirds of the party's principal item slots are +3; the rest are +2. Average bonus: +2 1/2, maybe +2 2/3. ETA: This should really match up as one more than at level 6. Either +1 2/3 was optimistic, or +2 1/2 is pessimistic.

Putting these together and assuming the low ends of my ranges:
6: 1 2/3
7: 2
8: 2
9: 2 2/15
10: 2 1/3
11: 2 1/2
(At that point, the cycle is basically stable, so 12 is about 2 2/3, 13 is about 3, etc. ETA so 11 should be one more than 6, 12 should be 3, etc.)

So: if the inherent +2 kicks at level 6, the inherent characters spend 1 level ahead by 1/3 1/2 of a plus, 2 levels at expected value, one level behind by 2/15, and one behind by 1/3, and one behind by 1/2. On average over the 6 5 levels, not counting mid level upgrades of equipment, they end up behind by a little bit more than 1/12 of a plus just about on average.
If it hits at level 7, they spend 2 levels at expected value, one behind by 2/15, one behind by 1/3, one behind by 1/2, and one behind by 2/3. On average, they're behind by a little more than 1/4 of a plus behind by about 1/5 of a plus.
If it hits at level 8, they spend 1 level at expected value, one behind by 2/15, one behind by 1/3, one behind by 1/2, one behind by 2/3, and one a whole point behind the curve. On average, a little bit more than 5/12 behind the curve--call it a half point behind. around 2/5 of a plus behind the curve.

My point is, yes, if the inherent bonus goes to +2 at level 6, level 6 inherent bonus characters are a little bit ahead of treasure parcel characters (who are roughly on par with DMG advanced level build characters). But level 11 10 inherent bonus characters are behind level 11 10 treasure parcel characters. Even with the bonus arriving at level 6, over a five level cycle, the characters with the inherent bonus end up behind on average. If the inherent bonus goes to +2 at level 7, then the inherent bonus characters are never ahead, and are behind by larger amounts. On average, except for the first half of heroic tier, inherent bonus characters will be closest in power to their treasure parcel peers if the inherent bonuses increase at levels 6, 11, etc. (Again, in a campaign with rare plus giving magic items, having the inherent bonuses arrive at level 7, 8, or even 9 might make for a good balance, depending on how rare plus giving magic items are--but in a campaign where they don't exist, balance is best at 6).

Two more points: What about the fourth slot? Won't characters' second weapon lag? Yes, but for the most part this comes out in the wash. First, treasure parcel characters will disproportionately get bonuses where they need them the most, because the players will direct the items to the characters that get the most value out of them. Second, it's vastly more important to have an additional +1 in your best slot than to lose a +1 in your fourth, back-up slot. There are a couple of builds where this isn't entirely true. Two-weapon warriors (i.e. melee rangers, some fighters, etc.) really need a bonus to both of their weapons. And characters that are evenly split between melee and ranged really need a bonus to both. (And pity the poor ranger who splits attacks roughly evenly between two swords and a bow, and needs three magic weapons at roughly parity...) But in general, the treasure parcel characters take a +1 hit on the rare occasions (one time in five? One time in 10? Less?) when they attack with their back-up weapons, and in exchange they gain a +1 a fair chunk of the time on all of their other attacks (or on their AC, or on their weak NADs). They clearly end up ahead by that trade.

Second, what about a party that concentrates its magic weapons (etc.) at powerful effects, with lower bonuses? "Because I use a +5/+10/+15 weapon and a +4/+9/+14 armor, I often lag a point behind in raw bonus, woe is me." Cry me a river. Presumably, you use those items because you think the effect is worth the trade-off. Well, the inherent bonus characters don't get those effects. (Maybe they get an occasional boon or something to compensate.) If you're choosing to, for example, take a damage rider to your weapon instead of an additional +1 at some levels, that's because (at a pure optimization level) you think you're more effective on average with that trade-off. We're not talking about any math fix to address the fact that at level 8, characters with an inherent +2 bonus have the same bonus as treasure parcel characters and none of the bells and whistles. There doesn't need to be a math fix for the treasure parcel character who at level 11 lags behind because they have gee-whiz effects; they get their benefit when they're level 14 characters with the same average bonus and better effects. On average across levels, it's still fair.

In summary: Obviously, in a low-end heroic game, giving a +1 inherent bonus at level 1 makes inherent bonus characters more powerful. For low heroic tier, it should probably hit at level 3, which also means that characters get a +1 bonus with each level up from 1-4. But for all other level ranges, if there are no magic items giving pluses, the bonuses will be fairest if they arrive at level 6 and each 5 levels after that, with level 7 and each 5 levels after that being close but stingy.