Magic Item Cost: Staff of Magi
- Thread starter dagger
- Start date
Tabarnak Smokeblower
First Post
Oops, there is no price for the Staff of the Magi in the SRD.
SR 23 = 110,000 gold
Since its an additional ability, only half of the price is applied while making a Staff of the Magi, so you'd save about 55,000 gold.
I'm at work right now so I won't be getting into the calculations of making a staff
TS
der_kluge
Adventurer
From the SRD:
I can work this up using the spell slot item creation system from the Artificer's Handbook, but I can tell you before I even put down the first number that A) a single wizard probably could not create such an item and B) it's going to cost a fortune. But let's proceed.
Essentially, the staff has the following powers, all operating at caster level 20.:
detect magic, enlarge, hold portal, light, mage armor, and mage hand all castable freely, an unlimited number of times.
dispel magic, fireball, ice storm, invisibility, knock, lightning bolt, passwall, pyrotechnics, wall of fire, and web all consume 1 charge from a common charge pool. Lightning bolt and fireball have a reduced DC (why, I know not).
monster summoning IX, plane shift, telekinesis (400 pounds maximum weight) - caster level 16, whirlwind
It also grants spell resistance 23, which you want to exclude. Then there's a whole bunch of stuff about exploding, and absorption which I'll tackle later.
First, the free spells:
detect magic (0) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level
enlarge (1) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +1 for second effect
hold portal (1) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +2 for third effect
light (0) (10 mins per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +13 10 mins per level, +3 for fourth effect
mage armor (1) (1 hr per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +4 for fifth effect
mage hand (0) (concentration) 3 spell trigger use-per, +5 (permanent), +5 for sixth effect
The cost for each effect is spell-trigger based, use-per (unlimited uses), and has a cost based on the spells duration (most of them are +15 for the 1 minute per level spells, but light is 10 mins per level, so has a decreased cost) - it costs less to cast a longer duration spell. Mage hand is a special cost, since our rules don't cover costs for spells with a duration of "concentration", I ruled that it's essentially permanent, which is the cheapest cost for this type of effect. The numbers 3, +15, etc., are the number of spell slots required. A wizard would need to have a total number of spell slots available to cast this many 1st or 0 level spells. Let's figure up the totals:
(1st level) 3+15+1 + 3+15+2 + 3+15+4 = 61
(0 level) 3+15 + 3+13+3 + 3+5+5 = 47
A wizard (or sorcerer) would need to be able to cast 61 first level spells, and 47 0 level spells in order to create just this part of the item. A 20th level sorcerer has spells per day of 6/ 6/6/6/ 6/6/6/ 6/6/6 and if he has a 30 Charisma, he's getting bonus spells of 3/3/2/ 2/2/2/ 1/1/1. Because he can use 2nd, 3rd, etc. spell slots to cast 0 and 1st level spells, let's see if he can actually cast a cantrip 47 times. 6 (0) + 9 (1) + 9 (2) + 8 (3) + 8 (4) +8 (5) = 48. He could cast 48 0 level spells by exhausting all of his 0, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spell slots. That would give him an item that could freely cast, with unlimited uses, light, mage hand, and detect magic.
Let's exhaust the rest of his spells and see how far he gets.
1 (5th, left over) + 8 (6) + 7 (7) + 7 (8) + 7 (9) = 30 first level spell slots. That would be enough to give him the Enlarge effect (19 total spell slots (3+15+1), which would leave him with 11 spell slots.
As you can see, a 20th level sorcerer, with a 30 charisma would be unable to make such an item in the tradition sense. In reality, he would have to make it slowly over time. Adding magic to it over a long period of time. This would actually increase the cost, because adding magic to an existing magic item costs more than just making it all at once. Otherwise, he'd need a ton of help.
Let's examine the cost of this portion of the item (assuming that the sorcerer is actually able to create just this portion of the item).
(1st level) 3+15+1 + 3+15+2 + 3+15+4 = 61
(0 level) 3+15 + 3+13+3 + 3+5+5 = 47
The formula is expressed as 10gp (spell level + caster level -1) * (# of spell slots) ^2
working through each spell we get (using a caster level of 20):
10(1+20-1)*(19)^2 +
10(1+20-1)*(20)^2 +
10(1+20-1)*(22)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(18)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(19)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(13)^2 =
200*361 + 200*400 + 200*484 + 190*324 + 190*361 + 190*169 = 72,200 + 80,000 + 96,800 + 61,560 + 68,590 + 32,110 = a creation cost of 411,260gp
So, a 20th level sorcerer with a 30 charisma would be 31 spell slots shy of being able to create just this portion of the item, and it would cost him 411,260gp. Even if he had a 44 charisma, he'd still be 15 spell slots short.
Now, if you're playing in some kind of uber munchkin game, and you insist on knowing how to create the rest of it, I can go through that, but it's obvious to me that this item is most definitely an artifact, and shouldn't be created through normal means.
I can work this up using the spell slot item creation system from the Artificer's Handbook, but I can tell you before I even put down the first number that A) a single wizard probably could not create such an item and B) it's going to cost a fortune. But let's proceed.
Essentially, the staff has the following powers, all operating at caster level 20.:
detect magic, enlarge, hold portal, light, mage armor, and mage hand all castable freely, an unlimited number of times.
dispel magic, fireball, ice storm, invisibility, knock, lightning bolt, passwall, pyrotechnics, wall of fire, and web all consume 1 charge from a common charge pool. Lightning bolt and fireball have a reduced DC (why, I know not).
monster summoning IX, plane shift, telekinesis (400 pounds maximum weight) - caster level 16, whirlwind
It also grants spell resistance 23, which you want to exclude. Then there's a whole bunch of stuff about exploding, and absorption which I'll tackle later.
First, the free spells:
detect magic (0) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level
enlarge (1) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +1 for second effect
hold portal (1) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +2 for third effect
light (0) (10 mins per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +13 10 mins per level, +3 for fourth effect
mage armor (1) (1 hr per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +4 for fifth effect
mage hand (0) (concentration) 3 spell trigger use-per, +5 (permanent), +5 for sixth effect
The cost for each effect is spell-trigger based, use-per (unlimited uses), and has a cost based on the spells duration (most of them are +15 for the 1 minute per level spells, but light is 10 mins per level, so has a decreased cost) - it costs less to cast a longer duration spell. Mage hand is a special cost, since our rules don't cover costs for spells with a duration of "concentration", I ruled that it's essentially permanent, which is the cheapest cost for this type of effect. The numbers 3, +15, etc., are the number of spell slots required. A wizard would need to have a total number of spell slots available to cast this many 1st or 0 level spells. Let's figure up the totals:
(1st level) 3+15+1 + 3+15+2 + 3+15+4 = 61
(0 level) 3+15 + 3+13+3 + 3+5+5 = 47
A wizard (or sorcerer) would need to be able to cast 61 first level spells, and 47 0 level spells in order to create just this part of the item. A 20th level sorcerer has spells per day of 6/ 6/6/6/ 6/6/6/ 6/6/6 and if he has a 30 Charisma, he's getting bonus spells of 3/3/2/ 2/2/2/ 1/1/1. Because he can use 2nd, 3rd, etc. spell slots to cast 0 and 1st level spells, let's see if he can actually cast a cantrip 47 times. 6 (0) + 9 (1) + 9 (2) + 8 (3) + 8 (4) +8 (5) = 48. He could cast 48 0 level spells by exhausting all of his 0, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spell slots. That would give him an item that could freely cast, with unlimited uses, light, mage hand, and detect magic.
Let's exhaust the rest of his spells and see how far he gets.
1 (5th, left over) + 8 (6) + 7 (7) + 7 (8) + 7 (9) = 30 first level spell slots. That would be enough to give him the Enlarge effect (19 total spell slots (3+15+1), which would leave him with 11 spell slots.
As you can see, a 20th level sorcerer, with a 30 charisma would be unable to make such an item in the tradition sense. In reality, he would have to make it slowly over time. Adding magic to it over a long period of time. This would actually increase the cost, because adding magic to an existing magic item costs more than just making it all at once. Otherwise, he'd need a ton of help.
Let's examine the cost of this portion of the item (assuming that the sorcerer is actually able to create just this portion of the item).
(1st level) 3+15+1 + 3+15+2 + 3+15+4 = 61
(0 level) 3+15 + 3+13+3 + 3+5+5 = 47
The formula is expressed as 10gp (spell level + caster level -1) * (# of spell slots) ^2
working through each spell we get (using a caster level of 20):
10(1+20-1)*(19)^2 +
10(1+20-1)*(20)^2 +
10(1+20-1)*(22)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(18)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(19)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(13)^2 =
200*361 + 200*400 + 200*484 + 190*324 + 190*361 + 190*169 = 72,200 + 80,000 + 96,800 + 61,560 + 68,590 + 32,110 = a creation cost of 411,260gp
So, a 20th level sorcerer with a 30 charisma would be 31 spell slots shy of being able to create just this portion of the item, and it would cost him 411,260gp. Even if he had a 44 charisma, he'd still be 15 spell slots short.
Now, if you're playing in some kind of uber munchkin game, and you insist on knowing how to create the rest of it, I can go through that, but it's obvious to me that this item is most definitely an artifact, and shouldn't be created through normal means.
der_kluge
Adventurer
Well, our rules handle recharging, and we don't place restrictions on how often something can be recharged. So, that's not the complex part of it. There are number of ways it could be created using our system. It's just the sheer number of effects that it can produce that make it an artifact. There's nothing hugely powerful about it, other than that.
That and the fact that no single spellcaster could ever create one in one sitting.
That and the fact that no single spellcaster could ever create one in one sitting.
James McMurray
First Post
Its not the fact that it can be recharged that makes it an artifact, but the fact that it can recharge itself.
Probably true, but the mage's friends can help. A single cohort, apprentice, party member, or other spellcasting friend can basically double the number of available slots per day, and multiple casters can assist.die_kluge said:
If the crafter doesn't have enough friends, and can't hire trustworthy NPCs, he can always use item spells. Acquiring that many wands, scrolls, and staffs would increase the cost in time and money, but an epic character has lots of resources to draw on.
An even easier solution would be to craft the item in stages. First just create a staff that can cast detect magic at will; that's easy and doesn't take long. In your next period of downtime, add the hold portal power, and pay the difference in price. Rinse and repeat, until all the powers are in place. You still end up spending the same total time and money, but you don't need to cast every spell every day. (Another advantage is that an interruption would only spoil one stage of the crafting, instead of the whole extensive process.)
die_kluge said:
Key word being "our" rules.
There is no non-artifact magical item in the DMG or any other WotC source (that I'm aware of) that has both charges and unlimited recharging capabilities.
Staves are priced according to 50 charges and then the item is gone. Removing that restriction makes the pricing wonky so they made it an artifact not to deal with its pricing. Every other power it has is easy to price.
