Loremaster - Any Good?
- Thread starter Malvoisin
- Start date
In general, you run into the same problems as you do with any Divination specialist... Divination is not a powerful school of magic. It doesn't let you mow down rows of enemies. It doesn't keep you alive when a horde of Orcs comes charging at you with pointy things. It doesn't let you escape in a desperate situation. There ARE uses for Divination... it's just that they're fewer and further between then uses for, say, Evocation. Or Abjuration. Or any other school, for that matter. There IS a reason why you only have to sacrifice one other school to specialiaze in Divination, after all...
That being said, Loremasters DO get more skills then a Wizard, and they get a handful of nifty minor bonuses, as well as (at higher levels) free identification of magic items... and, as is rampant throughout the core spellcasting classes, "+1 to caster level" is just as good as a level in the class itself... better, really, with the addition of a PrC level, making the acquisition of a PrC... ANY PrC... a no-brainer.
Unfortunately, when considering PrC power, there are plenty of PrCs that are far more useful in a standard scenario... if you're willing to put out such high requirements for a PrC, why not be a Fatespinner, or a Mage of the Arcane Order, or even a Divine Oracle?
Alternately, if you really want to identify magic items for free and have lots of nifty knowledge abilities, try the Cloisered Cleric variant in the D20 SRD... you get more skills, the same Lore ability, free Identify at first level (via the fact that Identify as a divine spell doesn't require a material component), and three domains. Granted, this is a rather different character concept, as you sacrifice Arcane casting for Divine... but in terms of pure divination efficiency, the Cloistered Cleric is superior.
To summarize... Loremaster is just below par for the Core... and certainly much weaker then the variant or the supplement. I'd probably use it for NPCs instead of PCs. But if you really want to play one, feel free. It is, after all, your character.
That being said, Loremasters DO get more skills then a Wizard, and they get a handful of nifty minor bonuses, as well as (at higher levels) free identification of magic items... and, as is rampant throughout the core spellcasting classes, "+1 to caster level" is just as good as a level in the class itself... better, really, with the addition of a PrC level, making the acquisition of a PrC... ANY PrC... a no-brainer.
Unfortunately, when considering PrC power, there are plenty of PrCs that are far more useful in a standard scenario... if you're willing to put out such high requirements for a PrC, why not be a Fatespinner, or a Mage of the Arcane Order, or even a Divine Oracle?
Alternately, if you really want to identify magic items for free and have lots of nifty knowledge abilities, try the Cloisered Cleric variant in the D20 SRD... you get more skills, the same Lore ability, free Identify at first level (via the fact that Identify as a divine spell doesn't require a material component), and three domains. Granted, this is a rather different character concept, as you sacrifice Arcane casting for Divine... but in terms of pure divination efficiency, the Cloistered Cleric is superior.
To summarize... Loremaster is just below par for the Core... and certainly much weaker then the variant or the supplement. I'd probably use it for NPCs instead of PCs. But if you really want to play one, feel free. It is, after all, your character.
I think the Loremaster is pretty flavourful. Ofcourse it is not the most powerful Prestige Class out there, but hey, so what?
It's kind of unique instead. The Skill focus for Knowledge doesn't hurt that much if your character is interested in knowledges anyway. If you have a good GM who every now and then takes this into account, there's plenty of use for it.
You indeed have to learn quite some Divination spells, which hurts a wizard maybe more than a sorcerer because he doesn't automatically gain so many spells. Now it depends a lot on the availability of spells and the amount of money you have access to. After all, your GM probably doesn't want you to stand around in most fights and not be able to do anything, right?
It's kind of unique instead. The Skill focus for Knowledge doesn't hurt that much if your character is interested in knowledges anyway. If you have a good GM who every now and then takes this into account, there's plenty of use for it.
You indeed have to learn quite some Divination spells, which hurts a wizard maybe more than a sorcerer because he doesn't automatically gain so many spells. Now it depends a lot on the availability of spells and the amount of money you have access to. After all, your GM probably doesn't want you to stand around in most fights and not be able to do anything, right?
I'd argue completely the opposite. Sorcerers only know a handful of spells, and to be required to take so many divination spells is a major handicap to a sorcerer. Not to mention the requirement to have ranks in two knowledge skills when usually only knowledge (arcana) is a class skill.bpkri said:
Wizards, on the other hand, automatically get the 0 level divination spells, and can buy a few scrolls and copy them into their spellbooks to get the rest. Its quite expensive, but at least you don't actually prepare things like "detect secret doors" if you don't want to.
Loremaster itself is one of my favourite prestige classes.
I like the extra skill points, and so what if you have to "waste" a feat on skill focus (knowledge). Most prestige classes require one or more feats which are perhaps weaker than the ones you'd normally pick, and in return you eventually get something like 5 loremaster secrets which are pretty much worth a feat each.
The bardic lore ability is also a very cool class feature.
Unfortunately, I'm not keen on wizards, and its pretty challenging to qualify as a sorcerer. After all, you have to pay for your metamagic / item creation feats rather than getting them as a bonus, and normally it takes another feat to get another knowledge skill as a class skill.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Malvoisin said:
My last 2 wizards were Loremasters. Two other players in my group also played a Loremaster.
I think it is one of the best Wizard Prestige Classes ever made.
That doesn't mean that it's overpowered. It just fits the wizard archetype perfectly, and all the abilities it grants are useful, but they are never overshadowing - free Identifies, Legend Lores aren't gamebreakers, and all special abilities are easy to adjucate.
If I hadn't already made 2 Loremasters, my next wizard (whenever this will be) would certainly become one, too.
There are certainly other prestige classes out there that might be better than the Loremaster, but all PrC I have seen so far never compelled me to play it. Either they cost to much, or I didn't care for the background, or I didn't care for the special abilities (regardless if powerful or not).
But the Loremaster convinced me instantly. If you're a diviner, there is no reason to not play a Loremaster. You have to learn the Divination spells anyway(otherwise, what are you going to do with your free slot), and you might need a feat and a few ranks to give up for it, but I think it is better (mechanical and flavourwise) than staying a wizard.
If there is anything I have to complain about the Loremaster, is that it must be to good, since, as I said already, I'd take it for all my wizards.
(That complaint might be valid, since it is essential a wizard+, except that the + doesn't really steal someone elses thunders or helps you killing monsters and take their stuff)
Li Shenron
Legend
Balance-wise I've seen it play quite well. It gives good benefits but also has its price.
The only thing I miss about this class, is to be actually more focused in academic knowledge (incl.magic). I think the LM benefits are somewhat too scattered into different directions (bonus feats, bonus to ST/HP...), which is of course still a form of knowledge, but I wouldn't expect a Wiz class to really care about certain practical knowledge.
The only thing I miss about this class, is to be actually more focused in academic knowledge (incl.magic). I think the LM benefits are somewhat too scattered into different directions (bonus feats, bonus to ST/HP...), which is of course still a form of knowledge, but I wouldn't expect a Wiz class to really care about certain practical knowledge.
I like the Loremaster PrC. I had one once and it went something like this (in a FR setting):
Wizard -5
Harper Mage -5
Loremaster -3
Archmage -1
It was the best built upper mid level caster I've ever had. Those 3 PrC's feed into eachother's requirements so well it's uncanny. When you are working out the prerequisites for Loremaster, don't forget you already have one: Scribe Scroll, an item creation feat.
Harper Mage gives you Skill Focus in a knowledge (I chose Arcana) and Skill Focus: Spellcraft (used to satisfy Archmage requirements). You can also pick up a free feat with Loremaster to help ease the feat requirement pains of Archmage. Just remember to look at the eratta on Harper Mage if you chose to go this route. The requirements have somewhat lessened since it's original printing in the Magic of Faerun.
Wizard -5
Harper Mage -5
Loremaster -3
Archmage -1
It was the best built upper mid level caster I've ever had. Those 3 PrC's feed into eachother's requirements so well it's uncanny. When you are working out the prerequisites for Loremaster, don't forget you already have one: Scribe Scroll, an item creation feat.
Harper Mage gives you Skill Focus in a knowledge (I chose Arcana) and Skill Focus: Spellcraft (used to satisfy Archmage requirements). You can also pick up a free feat with Loremaster to help ease the feat requirement pains of Archmage. Just remember to look at the eratta on Harper Mage if you chose to go this route. The requirements have somewhat lessened since it's original printing in the Magic of Faerun.
