Level Adjustment for the Tsochari (from Lords of Madness)

[saucercrab]

Has anyone tried to figure out the above? I realize that since there isn't an LA listed, this indicates that the tsochari aren't meant as PCs, but for some reason, I think they're a really cool monster race that would be fun to play (most likely in an evil campaign), & the ability to skin-ride means they'd be in disguise, as it were, so one could conceivably fit into all different kinds of parties. Anyway, this is what I've done so far, using the guidelines in Savage Species:

Base 4 racial hit dice, then level adjustment:
+1 unbalance ability scores (+2 Str, +8 Dex, +6 Con, +4 int, +4 Wis, +2 Cha),
-1 small size,
+1 natural armor (+4),
+1 for climb speed (20'),
+1 for four natural weapons (tentacles for 1d4+Str each),
+1 for 10' reach (yup, they have reach),
+1 for poison (1d3 Dex damage, but can only be used when successfully grappling),
+1 spell resistance (14),
+1 cold resistance 5,
+1 damage reduction (5/adamantine),
+1 constriction,
+1 improved grab
= +10 LA.
This isn't even considering the Take Spells, Wear Flesh, & Telepathy (100') abilities. The Telepathy is fun, but doesn't have any offensive uses. Any spellcaster that the tsochar can Take Spells from won't be that powerful, because of the circumstances for a tsochar to be able to Wear Flesh (it takes a minute for tsochar to get into a body & that body must be helpless), & most abilities won't be useful while the tsochar is in a body.

Then using the acid test, I see that Dex gets the highest bonus, & a rogue values that, so I should compare a tsochar rogue 1 (4 HD+10 LA/rog 1) to a rogue 15. There's no way I'd want to play the former in a 15th level game.

So, then I go over the example acid tests, specifically the troll. That one states that a +7 natural armor & scent aren't of major value for a troll's LA, so I can ignore the tsochar's NA. Following that example, I also decided to ignore some other things:
1. the climb speed (as a lot of things can fly at that point);
2. poison (the DC is low & doesn't scale with class levels);
3. spell resistance (by 10th level, a 14 will hardly be a problem for spellcasters);
4. cold resistance (c'mon, a 5 is worth bupkiss at this point);
5. lumped constriction into improved grapple, as the tsochar is a small creature, so grappling isn't that effective, & rogues usually don't grapple.
That gives me a reduced LA of +4. So acid testing is now a tsochar rogue 1 versus a rogue 9.

And that's where I'm at. Is a 9th level rogue the equivalent of a 1st level tsochar rogue?

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

The ability score adjustments you list are worth far more than +1 LA.

Frankly, the tsochar illustrate what's wrong with the LA system. They might indeed make an interesting PC race, but any reasonable LA would likely render them too weak, in terms of hit points, to be playable.

I don't have a solution, but I am sure that the LA system has real limits, and tsochar illustrate one of them rather nicely.

 

[saucercrab]

Mind you, I'm looking at this in the long run. Thinking of a character build that wouldn't really work until in the teens of levels. My group has occasionally had one-shots & started campaigns above 1st level, so...

Hmm, okay, comparing the tsochar's ability scores to a troll's...
The troll in the acid test lists +1 or +2 to LA for its ability score bonuses, so the tsochar should get a +2 for them. That would give them a revised LA of +5, for an ECL of 9. Yeah, that would be hard to play, unless in a very high-level game, where the Con bonus can actually have paid off.

A tsochar rogue 1 or a normal rogue 10?

• Well, the Con bonus would be worth 15 HP by this point, & that's the average of 5d6 (the extra HD the normal rogue has); & the tsochar's racial HD is higher (aberration's d8), so 4d8+1d6+15 (average 40, max. 53) vs 10d6 (average 37, max. 60).
• +4 to Dex-based skills is almost even with the 5 extra ranks a normal rogue has at this point.
• Attacking (assuming Weapon Finesse) is four attacks at +7 (+3 BAB plus +4 Dex) doing 1d4+1 vs two attacks at +7/+2 (BAB) doing 1d6; add in sneak attack & it's almost even there, but I think the normal rogue has the edge (4x 1d6 vs 2x 5d6). And magical rapiers are a bit easier to get than amulets of mighty fists, bracers of striking, etc.
• Skill points are the main point of suckage here: 38 vs 104; no contest, go normal rogue.

Not sure what else to compare. It looks like the tsochar might be slightly better in combat, but will fail hard when it comes to doing most of what a rogue is supposed to do.