Let's talk about the AD&D 1e Dungeon Master's Guide
- Thread starter Sebastian Francis
- Start date
Psion
Adventurer
The_Gneech said:How did we get from the DMG to being nasty?
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1838307&postcount=5
Henry
Autoexreginated
Sebastian Francis said:
I wouldn't use the words "advanced", but would agree to "simplified." Ever notice how all the extra space in 3E and 3.5 is devoted to new feats, classes, and spells? You take those out, and you've got one heck of a simple rules system; the rest is just variety in the window dressing.
As for my enjoyment of the 1E DMG versus the new DMG, I compare it to a conversation with my father, versus a conversation with a dear, but older friend. It still imparts a lot of info, but doesn't quite have the same impact.
The_Gneech
Explorer
Psion said:
Hmm ... perhaps I should be a little bit more obviously rhetorical next time.
-The Gneech
1E DMG ? The Best !
Simply put, that book held more information than today's DMG. It was denser and Gygax's style, purposefully archaic or anachronistic in tone, made it that much more interesting.
The 1E DMG could be read without being a bore, which imho is far from the 3E or 3.5 DMG. The simplified English of the newer version, coupled with a larger text font and the oh so politically correct perversion of English arising from the use of the feminine, turn it into rather unpalatable fare. That doesn't mean the newer books are not good references or are lame in contents...
A Lightning Bolt cast underwater acting as an electric dispersion equal in volume to a fireball centered on the point where the LB appears is one example of forethought now seemingly disappeared from current offerings.
Falling objects hitting a target were lethal in 1E. And close to useless in 3E...
The newer DMGs might have been made for easier referencing. Inasmuch as we have (often useleless at present) color framing of pages, why not make such color different per chapter, enablign a quick opening to the proper section ? For whatever reason, the 1E DMG allowed faster referencing when you knew the book in and out... The layout and the illustrations really helped in finding your way quickly.
It was and remains a fantastic work, unequalled, let alone surpassed, by today's books.
And as I write these lines, I am once again tempted to ditch 3E/3.5 (since some of the contents is so botched that we need to meld and incorporate pieces of both editions) in favor of 1E... The jury is still out on that one.
Simply put, that book held more information than today's DMG. It was denser and Gygax's style, purposefully archaic or anachronistic in tone, made it that much more interesting.
The 1E DMG could be read without being a bore, which imho is far from the 3E or 3.5 DMG. The simplified English of the newer version, coupled with a larger text font and the oh so politically correct perversion of English arising from the use of the feminine, turn it into rather unpalatable fare. That doesn't mean the newer books are not good references or are lame in contents...
A Lightning Bolt cast underwater acting as an electric dispersion equal in volume to a fireball centered on the point where the LB appears is one example of forethought now seemingly disappeared from current offerings.
Falling objects hitting a target were lethal in 1E. And close to useless in 3E...
The newer DMGs might have been made for easier referencing. Inasmuch as we have (often useleless at present) color framing of pages, why not make such color different per chapter, enablign a quick opening to the proper section ? For whatever reason, the 1E DMG allowed faster referencing when you knew the book in and out... The layout and the illustrations really helped in finding your way quickly.
It was and remains a fantastic work, unequalled, let alone surpassed, by today's books.
And as I write these lines, I am once again tempted to ditch 3E/3.5 (since some of the contents is so botched that we need to meld and incorporate pieces of both editions) in favor of 1E... The jury is still out on that one.
Sebastian Francis
First Post
fredramsey said:
I don't spend much time alone, as I am a teacher and happily married. However I often *do* act like a jerk for no good reason (which is the worst reason of all). I apologize, and I edited my message to make it less grating. :\
Insight
Adventurer
I too was re-reading the 1E DMG recently. I noticed one marked difference in terms of style from the 1E to the 3E. EGG's writing style is a lot more pointed than the writers of the new versions. Notice a lot of 'must' in the text. In other words, 'you must do this' appears a lot in the text. Whereas in the 3rd ed DMG, a lot more fluidity to the writing style ('if you prefer...').
I'm not saying one is better than another, just different. I started gaming well before 2nd ed, and learned D&D the way it was meant to be played. I like both, and have fond memories from all 3 versions of D&D.
I'm not saying one is better than another, just different. I started gaming well before 2nd ed, and learned D&D the way it was meant to be played. I like both, and have fond memories from all 3 versions of D&D.
atom crash
First Post
You know, I've never read the 1E DMG cover to cover. You're right, at times this book is the most brilliant thing I've ever read, at times it's so dry and boring it could be a textbook. Sorry, I can't give specific examples because I don't have my book at hand and I'm going from memory. Now I at least want to go back and revisit certain sections.
I think the 1E DMG did a much better job of providing fluff. The campaign-building material is excellent, and I prefer that stuff to what's in the 3.5 DMG on the same topic. I also really really miss the city encounter tables (try finding that in the 3.5 DMG). All three of my copies open right to this section -- long live Emirikol the Chaotic!
What I don't miss are all the to-hit and saving throw tables. Thank Cuthbert 3rd edition simplified all that nonsense.
However, the 3.5 DMG has some great stuff. If I need a quick NPC, I'd rather have the 3.5 DMG -- with its multitude of NPC tables -- than the 1E DMG.
I see the 3.5 DMG as a better rulebook while the 1E DMG was a better book for sparking ideas. of course, many of those ideas have since become a standard part of the D&D game. Maybe it's nostalgia. Maybe it's the simple fact that when I picked up my first DMG it was all fresh and new. Maybe it was just a better book. I don't know. Most likely it is some combination of the three. Has it been outdated because we're in the third (fourth? fifth?) edition of the game? Absolutely not. Has it been outdated by all the video games, novels, movies, etc that it has spawned since? Absolutely not.
* There may be those who read the above and think what I'm saying is that the 3.5 DMG doesn't have any ideas, just rules in it. That's not what I'm saying at all. I get loads of great ideas from my 3.5 book. But I get just as many, if not more, great ideas from my 1E book still.
I think the 1E DMG did a much better job of providing fluff. The campaign-building material is excellent, and I prefer that stuff to what's in the 3.5 DMG on the same topic. I also really really miss the city encounter tables (try finding that in the 3.5 DMG). All three of my copies open right to this section -- long live Emirikol the Chaotic!
What I don't miss are all the to-hit and saving throw tables. Thank Cuthbert 3rd edition simplified all that nonsense.
However, the 3.5 DMG has some great stuff. If I need a quick NPC, I'd rather have the 3.5 DMG -- with its multitude of NPC tables -- than the 1E DMG.
I see the 3.5 DMG as a better rulebook while the 1E DMG was a better book for sparking ideas. of course, many of those ideas have since become a standard part of the D&D game. Maybe it's nostalgia. Maybe it's the simple fact that when I picked up my first DMG it was all fresh and new. Maybe it was just a better book. I don't know. Most likely it is some combination of the three. Has it been outdated because we're in the third (fourth? fifth?) edition of the game? Absolutely not. Has it been outdated by all the video games, novels, movies, etc that it has spawned since? Absolutely not.
* There may be those who read the above and think what I'm saying is that the 3.5 DMG doesn't have any ideas, just rules in it. That's not what I'm saying at all. I get loads of great ideas from my 3.5 book. But I get just as many, if not more, great ideas from my 1E book still.
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