D&D 5E Is 5e's Success Actually Bad for Other Games?

[Parmandur]

The negative reaction to 4e formatting is a real thing, but it absolutely baffles me. As I've often posted, I love immersion in the fiction and inhabitation of the character - but the rules text is not part of this. It's a means for establishing the fiction, not the fiction per se, and the crisper the better.

I can only imagine that those who rely on the rules text to be part of their understanding of the fiction are approaching RPGing with a very different mindset from my own.

For me, it's all of a piece: if the book isn't fun to read, prep becomes a chore.

 

[loverdrive]

It's a fallacy that 4e failed because players didn't give it a real chance. That somehow a few people on forums could prevent people trying it in their homes. The cold hard truth is that many of those who gave it a fair chance (like me for 12 months) and tried it for more than a few hours didn't like it enough to keep playing it. It's best to accept that and move on, than dream up alternate history scenarios in which 4e was a resounding success.

Or maybe players didn't understand 4e. You can fiddle with something as much as you like, but if you use it wrong, you'll never get sensible results.

Appreciating 4E, just like appreciating Fate or AW or Умер Мужик requires a significant paradigm shift.

One of my friends loves anchovies. Whether straight from a can or on pizza.

They obviously lie.

What the hell is anchovies, anyway?

 

[Zardnaar]

4E was over designed and rushed with no clear market. They designed something different that not that many people wanted as it turn out. I never cared about mechanics when I started D&D it was the fluff that lured me in.

As to D&D being the 800 pound Gorilla. Can you personally make a better burger than McDonald's?

I've been hearing about how awful D&D is since around 1996 from Vampire players.


There's two genres for RPGs I think that have mass appeal. Sci Fi and Fantasy. Anything outside that is niche IMHO. Both have a fair bit of crossover in the fans as well.

Other things kinda come and go. Vampires were popular in the 90's now not so much relative to then.

Some genres just don't age well eg Westerns.

Fantasy has been around for a long long time espicially if one regards myth and legends as related.

RPG companies are also like restaurants. Undercapitalized, lots of competition, lots of small ones. One mistake and you're gone burger. D&D is a bit more resilient and can survive a bankruptcy and a failed edition and bounce back.

 

[Zardnaar]

Or maybe players didn't understand 4e. You can fiddle with something as much as you like, but if you use it wrong, you'll never get sensible results.

Appreciating 4E, just like appreciating Fate or AW or Умер Мужик requires a significant paradigm shift.


They obviously lie.

What the hell is anchovies, anyway?

Fish I think. Watching Ninja Turtles as a kid I didn't know what anchovies were.

Didn't get to try US type pizza until I was 18 (and it was Pizza Hut).

Seafood pizza is also disgusting. It is known.

 

[Don Durito]

People are generally bad at articulating why they don't like something, especially when they have an emotional reaction.

It could be that people really hated 4Es formatting, because it seemed like something distinctly 4e and they hated 4e, so they hated that.

Cause and effect get all confused.

 

[Parmandur]

People are generally bad at articulating why they don't like something, especially when they have an emotional reaction.

It could be that people really hated 4Es formatting, because it seemed like something distinctly 4e and they hated 4e, so they hated that.

Cause and effect get all confused.

My own experience was of being eager and excited to get into 4E, and the formatting proved a barrier to be overcome...every time I wanted to think about the game.

 

[Fanaelialae]

They obviously lie.

What the hell is anchovies, anyway?

If so, you've really got to admire how he's gone all in on the lie. I've watched him eat several tins by himself over the years. That's commitment!

They're diminutive fish, usually packed into a tin.

 

[Zardnaar]

People are generally bad at articulating why they don't like something, especially when they have an emotional reaction.

It could be that people really hated 4Es formatting, because it seemed like something distinctly 4e and they hated 4e, so they hated that.

Cause and effect get all confused.

Most of the arguements boil down to powers/class design IMHO.

 

[pemerton]

For me, it's all of a piece: if the book isn't fun to read, prep becomes a chore.

Well, that takes me to a different point: anyone who finds long entries in spell lists, monster manuals etc fun to read has a very different approach to reading fiction from my own.

 

[pemerton]

Most of the arguements boil down to powers/class design IMHO.

Which takes me to a third point:

What I enjoy about RPGing is the fiction. What makes different character different is the fiction. I don't understand the notion that characters need to rely on different mechanical subsystems to be different - ie that character differentiation is a property of the PC build and action resolution rules, rather than the fiction.