Iron Bands of Bilarro and Coup de Grace?

[frankthedm]

Iron Bands of Binding: When initially discovered, this very potent item appears to be a 3-inch-diameter rusty iron sphere with bandings on the globe.
When the proper command word is spoken and the spherical iron device is hurled at an opponent, the bands expand and then contract to bind the target creature on a successful ranged touch attack. A single Large or smaller creature can be captured thus and held immobile until the command word is spoken to bring the bands into spherical form again. The creature can break (and ruin) the bands with a DC 30 Strength check or escape them with a DC 30 Escape Artist check. Iron bands of binding are usable once per day.
Strong evocation; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, grasping hand; Price 26,000 gp;Weight 1 lb.

make something helpless with a touch attack 1/day? Doesn't sit right with me. Even bustable, a competent group will have the tanks and rogue ready to CDG the target before its initive tick.

 

[mikebr99]

Iron Bands of Binding: When initially discovered, this very potent item appears to be a 3-inch-diameter rusty iron sphere with bandings on the globe.
When the proper command word is spoken and the spherical iron device is hurled at an opponent, the bands expand and then contract to bind the target creature on a successful ranged touch attack. A single Large or smaller creature can be captured thus and held immobile until the command word is spoken to bring the bands into spherical form again. The creature can break (and ruin) the bands with a DC 30 Strength check or escape them with a DC 30 Escape Artist check. Iron bands of binding are usable once per day.
Strong evocation; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, grasping hand; Price 26,000 gp;Weight 1 lb.

make something helpless with a touch attack 1/day? Doesn't sit right with me. Even bustable, a competent group will have the tanks and rogue ready to CDG the target before its initive tick.

I agree... Immobile, yes. Helpless, no. YMMV

Mike

 

[KarinsDad]

To play devil's advocate:

"A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy."

The bands would be pretty... binding. It would seem to fit.

You are not playing devil's advocate. You are quoting the rule.

Having the Bands bind you is no different than being bound while helpless. It is the exact same verb, just a different tense.

Saying that the Bands do not make you helpless because it does not explicitly say so is like saying the Hold Person spell does not make you helpless because it does not explicitly say so. You are helpless in both cases.

 

[Derren]

Hold Person does say that you are helpless (Paralyzation). The Iron band does not and so you are not helpless when beeing held immobile by the band.

 

[dcollins]

My reading is "yes", a coup de grace is legitimate, because "being bound" counts for the CDG rule.

 

[KarinsDad]

Hold Person does say that you are helpless (Paralyzation). The Iron band does not and so you are not helpless when beeing held immobile by the band.

Where exactly does Hold Person state that (in the SRD)?

Hold Person
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D); see text
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)
A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.
Arcane Focus: A small, straight piece of iron.


The definition of helpless doesn't change.

"A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. "

Held is in italics in the definition because it means held as in hold person, not held as in grappled.


Any character that is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy is helpless. The cause is irrelevant.

You can be asleep due to the Sleep spell, or you can be asleep due to being tired and you are still helpless.

You can be bound with rope, or bound with chains, or bound with the Iron Bands and you are still helpless.

Bind means bound, it does not mean grappled.

 

[Derren]

Hold person paralyses you and the definition of helpless clearly states that palalysis counts.

The iron bands hold you immobile and immobile is not mentioned on the helpless defintion and there is an example where immobile doesn't make you helpless.

As for the "bound thing", the "binds the target" is flavor text, not rule text. Also when you tie someones hands together he is also bound, but no way he is helpless.

 

[Arravis]

So, consencus seems to be that it does make you helpless?

 

[Derren]

No, there are many people who think otherwise.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

No, there are many people who think otherwise.

But they're all wrong, so you can ignore tham.