D&D 5E How exactly does a Paladin break it's Oath?

So asking the DMs out there, would you allow a lawful evil Paladin to take an Oath or the Crown, Devotion, or Ancients? He'll behave accordingly in company at all times, but will probably "do evil things" in times he thinks he could get away with it. Obviously this character would have no qualms with lying, cheating, stealing, and killing if he thought he could get away with it. It would almost be like he was leading a double life. I just don't know if it would "work" like with the Pally powers and whatnot. I like for things to make a little of bit of sense and at least try to stay logical in decisions.

If I was the DM i wouldn't allow it. It would be just too contradictory. A paladin is defined by being a good person. If that person does evil then they no longer fit the definition of paladin. The simplest and most logical route would be taking the oathbreaker route.

Or you could always homebrew it. Make your own paladin oath that focuses on deceit or something.
 

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Oaths have mechanical impact. Alignment does not.

You can be an evil paladin in 5E, but you still have to abide by your oath. It doesn't matter if "anyone's watching" or not. There's not some School Principle who's going to punish you, but only if he notices. If you aren't faithful to your oath, you lose your paladin status. Alignment doesn't enter into it, and neither does whether or not you're caught at it.
 

You could always play as an Oathbreaker Paladin who pretends to still be following his original oath. That does sorta require a character who was at some time sincere about the oath and then changed his mind and abandoned it though, so it may not exactly fit Your concept.
 

So asking the DMs out there, would you allow a lawful evil Paladin to take an Oath or the Crown, Devotion, or Ancients? He'll behave accordingly in company at all times, but will probably "do evil things" in times he thinks he could get away with it. Obviously this character would have no qualms with lying, cheating, stealing, and killing if he thought he could get away with it. It would almost be like he was leading a double life. I just don't know if it would "work" like with the Pally powers and whatnot. I like for things to make a little of bit of sense and at least try to stay logical in decisions.

Sure, lawful evil I think is sadly one of the more under-represented moral alignments in D&D, since it has a lot of potential facets. A merciless mercenary who cares for and protects his band of brigands could easily be a Devotion paladin. An enforcer of a tyrant who prefers the current system to anarchy could be a paladin of the Crown. Really, many of the classic "gotchas" for good aligned paladins in the past can be logical motivations for evil paladins, since they're willing to make sacrifices in order to uphold their beliefs. They aren't naive about having to dirty their hands to uphold their ideals.
 

So asking the DMs out there, would you allow a lawful evil Paladin to take an Oath or the Crown, Devotion, or Ancients? He'll behave accordingly in company at all times, but will probably "do evil things" in times he thinks he could get away with it. Obviously this character would have no qualms with lying, cheating, stealing, and killing if he thought he could get away with it. It would almost be like he was leading a double life. I just don't know if it would "work" like with the Pally powers and whatnot. I like for things to make a little of bit of sense and at least try to stay logical in decisions.

That sounds more like an Oathbreaker Paladin (DM's guide) to me. It's something specifically reserved for evil paladin types. I'd personally rule against a non-good paladin. Partly because I'm old-school, and partly because I'm highly suspicious of players who *want* to be evil characters (much less an evil paladin, of all things).
 

Sure, lawful evil I think is sadly one of the more under-represented moral alignments in D&D, since it has a lot of potential facets. A merciless mercenary who cares for and protects his band of brigands could easily be a Devotion paladin. An enforcer of a tyrant who prefers the current system to anarchy could be a paladin of the Crown. Really, many of the classic "gotchas" for good aligned paladins in the past can be logical motivations for evil paladins, since they're willing to make sacrifices in order to uphold their beliefs. They aren't naive about having to dirty their hands to uphold their ideals.

Yes, but they don't make for good player characters in most groups.
 

Personally, I like the thought of an evil paladin who takes one of the 'good' oaths, simply because it adds a nuance to the character. There would have to be a reason why that Paladin took that oath, and not just because "It gives me powers!"

In the real world, everyone has their inner darkness. Some people fight it, some embrace it, but nobody actually believes they are being evil. Evil people believe they are good people. It would be the same for an Evil Paladin.

A Paladin gets his power from his oaths, so he must believe in them. The Oath of the Crown is about following a King of some kind. Believing that the ultimate good comes from following that King. Doesn't matter who the king is. So an Evil King would have Evil Paladins. Even a Good King might have an Evil Paladin to do his dirty work, and that Paladin would be more than happy to do it, because he believes it is a 'good thing'.

The Oath of the Ancients is about beauty and light, and would be harder for an evil paladin, though not impossible, especially if that Evil Paladin is trying to atone for his sins in some way. He would struggle, day and night, to uphold the oaths he took. It would be a struggle for him, fighting against his own nature to be evil, while trying to practice showing mercy and forgiveness. It would create a very compelling character, one that anyone would want to read about, and I would love to play.

Oath of Devotion is a little easier, because the individual can simply focus his 'evilness' on the enemies. He protects the innocent out of duty to his oaths, which is a lawful trait. It's like Dexter the serial killer, only killing bad guys as his way to satisfy his urges while at the same time helping people.

Of course, the Oath of Vengence is the easiest, and even more Dexter-like.

So it can work if you don't view Alignment as a static thing, but more of a current state of mind. An evil character can still be the hero of the story. Look at Artimis Entreri and Jarlaxle. They fight the evil in their hearts, sometimes giving in, sometimes not. It doesn't mean you're playing out of character if you have an evil character show mercy on someone, if it fits with the character. They still love, laugh, form attachments, and the like.

Deciding an 'evil' person has no good aspects is as boring as a good person who has no evil aspects. Everyone struggles with themselves, and everyone has their reasons for doing what they do. I could see an evil paladin choosing any of the oaths.

But as the original question is about how to break their oaths, here's my thoughts: for the Oath of the Crown, the oath is to the crown, so if the paladin, for some reason, no longer believed the Crown worthy, then he would be breaking his oaths. For the Oath of Devotion or Ancients, giving in to his darker side at a pivotal moment would do it as well. For the Oath of Vengance, it's actually easier. See, the paladin will need to choose a 'sworn enemy'. Or enemy type. Similar to the Ranger's favoured enemy. The tenants of the Oath of Vengence say these sworn enemies get no mercy, and the paladin must do everything in their power to destroy them.

Like one of my players chose this, and his paladin hates those who worship evil gods. So what happens if he meets someone, grows attached to them, perhaps even falls in love with them, and then learns that they follow an evil god? What happens if it turns out that she absolutely will not renounce her god? She is his sworn enemy. He is not allowed to show her mercy, nor is he allowed to just ignore her. To do so would be to fall, especially since he had already fallen once. Wow. I just figured out his next adventure. I'm such a d$#%.
 

If it's Lawful, I let it take the Oath of the Crown.

In general, I let any alignment play any oath. If the two are in conflict, well that's a good source of RP.
 

In actuality, I've always viewed alignment to be more of a starting point than a set characteristic. PCs change over time, so while I like using alignment in character creation, it basically goes out the window once play starts. The character develops as we go.
 

The first thing to do is to stop using "Evil" as a defining adjective. No one describes themselves as "Evil". "Evil" is an appellation someone would put on you for the actions you have taken.

So you aren't making an "Evil" paladin... you instead are making a paladin who has taken an Oath, and in the course of doing things in service of that Oath... other people say and feel that the specific actions you have taken are extreme and wrong. While your actions might fulfill the duties of your Oath, they cause more pain and suffering to other people than is necessary.

So a paladin would not "lead a double life" or "lie, cheat, steal, or kill" just because they thought they could "get away with it". But rather... they would lie, cheat, steal or kill if they though it was the best way to fulfill the Oath they have taken. If they've taken the Oath of the Ancients for example and there's a baron looking to absolutely stripmine a forest nearby to get at the gold underneath... the paladin might kill that baron so it doesn't happen and the forest is saved. Or perhaps lie to the villagers about the evils in the forest so that they refused to go in there. Or perhaps go into the forest and mine as much of the gold himself via a much less violent action against the trees, say by charming or controlling an earth elemental to do it for him.

None of these are Good acts. Some might even claim the paladin's actions to protect the forest were outright Evil. But the paladin himself was just taking actions in service to his Oath, and NOT because he said to himself that morning "You know, I think I'm going to be an A-hole to people today, just because I can be!".

Don't assign "Evil" to your character as a defining trait. But rather... decide what is important to your character, and then decide what lengths you are willing to go to accomplish it. And if that results in people saying "That paladin's an evil bastard!", then great. You've accomplished what you wanted naturally through play, and not by artificially choosing to just be a jerk "just because".
 

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