Glyph Seals from Magic Item Compendium

[Atavar]

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to run by you the use of magic items one of my players is asking me about to see if any of you can see a problem with it.

There are two magic items on p. 161 of the new Magic Item Compendium called "glyph seal" and "glyph seal, greater." They appear to work like a portable, reusable glyph of warding device. They duplicate the spell glyph function of the glyph of warding spell. Here are some key differences from the spell, though:

1. They can store ANY spell, not just harmful spells.

2. They can store any arcane or divine spell, not just cleric spells.

3. The glyph seal can store any spell of 2nd level or lower, and the greater glyph seal can store any spell of 5th level or lower (the book actually says 5th level or higher, but I'm certain that's a misprint).

My player wants to use these things to give the other characters easy-to-use, rechargeable buff items. He was thinking of the various cure spells, for example, but the one I wanted to ask about in particular is righteous might. That is a pretty powerful cleric spell, and it normally has a target of "you" (i.e. the caster). However, the glyph seals state specifically that you can place ANY arcane or divine spell within them (not just harmful spells). There is no restriction written as to target, etc.

So, my player wants to key a greater glyph seal with the righteous might spell, attach the seal to a small container (thus putting the glyph upon the container), and have the glyph trigger when someone opens the container. Then the party's warforged would carry this container on his belt and activate it when desired.

Once activated, someone would need to retrieve the seal from the container and charge it with another spell before it could be used again. In effect, though, the item turns out to be much like a rechargeable potion that can store any spell of up to 5th level, and the party can use it over and over again.

Is there anything wrong from a rules perspective with any of the above? Even if the above agrees with the RAW, what kind of potential abuse, if any, do you see in the power of these glyph seals?

Thanks,

Atavar

 

[KerlanRayne]

Sounds like the ordinary Ring of Spell Storing to me. Try comparing it to that.

KerlanRayne

 

[hong]

Rings of spell storing are just cheese IMO. They nicely bypass the balancing factor built into range: personal spells, ie the assumption that you can't cast them on a character who can fully exploit them.

 

[Atavar]

I looked up the rings of spell storing, and while there are several differences, the bottom line is that it costs a LOT more to get a ring of spell storing than it does to get a greater glyph seal.

For the righteous might example, that spell is 5th level, so it would require a greater glyph seal to store and use. A greater glyph seal costs 4000 g.p., and in MIC terms is a 4th-level item, price-wise.

To store that 5th-level spell on one of the rings of spell storing we would need a regular ring (not the minor or major versions), which costs 50,000 g.p., and is an 18th-level item, price-wise.

Yes, the items are used differently in some ways, but in the most important ways they work very similarly. Similarly enough that I would think they'd have somewhat similar prices.

One of my players e-mailed WotC about the glyph seals and his plans on how to use them. I didn't read WotC's response personally, but my player told me that they essentially said, "Huh. We never thought about that."

More and more I'm thinking that some sort of cost adjustment and/or limitation needs to be done with these glyph seals.

Later,

Atavar

 

[Nail]

Does the glyph seal target the openner? Always? Even for spells that don't normally target something else?

Seems like a good balancing factor there: "Hey look, the glass vial is the subject of Righteous Might!"

 

[Atavar]

Basically, here is how the glyph seal works:

1. Caster casts any arcane or divine spell (2nd level or lower for glyph seal, 5th level or lower for greater glyph seal) into the glyph seal. This is called "keying" the seal.

2. Caster sticks the seal against any nonmagical, nonliving object. This effectively places a glyph, like a glyph of warding, upon the object, triggered as the caster wishes. The glyph seal itself also stays on the object, hidden, but easily found by the caster. At this point the glyph seal is emptied of its spell (the spell/glyph itself is now on the touched object), but the glyph seal item can be recovered and filled with another spell later.

3. The glyph is triggered (e.g. by opening the object), releasing the stored spell upon the one who triggered the glyph, or centered upon him, just as with the glyph of warding spell.

The glyph of warding spell, however, specifically says that you can only put HARMFUL spells within a glyph of warding; the intent is for the glyph to always harm whoever triggers it. The potential for abuse, then, with the glyph seal magic item is that it places no such restriction on the spells that can be stored within it; ANY arcane or divine spell can be stored, not just harmful ones.

I'm tempted to rule that you can only put harmful spells within a glyph seal, just as with the glyph of warding spell. It still broadens the spells you can use, since the glyph of warding spell limits the spells even further to the spells known by the caster, and since glyph of warding is a Clr 3 spell, that means only cleric spells may be used with the glyph of warding spell, while ANY arcane or divine spell of appropriate level may be used with the glyph seal items.

Later,

Atavar

 

[FatherTome]

I'm the player of Atavar's who brought this up, and there's a couple important notes on Glyph Seal (and the Greater) version.

The language is pretty specific - it states "any arcane or divine spell of 2nd level or lower". Second, it's activated just as the 'spell glyph' function as in Glyph of Warding.

This has some important points - first, the glyph is triggered when a creature enters the warded area (if warded over an area) or opens the warded object (if, for example, a ward or chest is opened). It can also be set to trigger when a creature passes the glyph, but this is similar enough to the area effect as to be functionally identical.

Second, the spell glyph function is very specific about targetting - the creature who triggers the glyph is the target of the spell, or if the spell affects an area, the spell is centered on the creature who triggered it. Similarily, if the spell is a Summon Monster or Summon Natures Ally or similar spell, the summoned creature appears as close to the triggering creature as possible and attacks.

That being said, Atavar told me I would have to run any spells I wanted to potentially place into the glyph seal by him beforehand, so I tossed out a few spells I would probably use on a regular basis for consumption.

In that list I deliberately included two personal-range spells - Invisibility Purge and Righteous Might. Now, there is a magic item that mimics the effect of Invisibility Purge (the Lantern of Revealing, if I remember correctly) but it's short range, suffers the limitations of Invisibility Purge (which is really a combat-type spell, given the radius), and it's frankly expensive. Goggles of Continual See Invisibility cost much less according to the RAW, and pair that with a Wand of Glitterdust and you've got much the same effect as Invisibility Purge in a pinch with much less hassle, with much greater range.

Righteous Might's inclusion on that list has to do with my continued desire to find an acceptable substitute for Enlarge Person. EP is a pretty terrible spell when you compare it to Animal Growth, which not only gives the proper bonuses for increasing in size (which Enlarge Person does not) but also gives damage reduction (magic) and a natural armor bonus to boot. Even so, I would still use Enlarge Person on our fighter if he wasn't a Warforged and thus not a valid target for the spell.

Righteous Might, on the other hand, while still inferior to Animal Growth, gives enough of a bonus to make it more worthwhile to cast on a fighter - but being a personal range spell, it serves only to infuriate me since to get it on the fighter even once a day I would have to purchase the rather overpriced Ring of Spell Storing, or create a command-word item that functions once a day (which would cost 16,200 GP - not cheap for a party of 9th level characters).

Back on topic - there are plenty of spells that, under these circumstances, make sense to be allowable for use on a Glyph Seal. The question then becomes a matter of balance, which is why I'm running spells by Atavar beforehand.

As for a Ring of Spell Storing, I personally think that the item is frankly overpriced, but the increased cost can be at least partially attributed to the fact that you aren't restricted to a single spell,you can target the spell as appropriate, and it only takes a single standard action per use, meaning that you could use it offensively (dropping a Meteor Swarm into the ring for future use, for example). The Glyph Seal ordinarily does something different, and I saw a way that it could be exploited to do something similar (much like Fire Trap could be exploited to create Fire Trap arrows in 2nd edition).

I get the feeling that WotC is going to errata the cost, however.


- Tome

 

[Salthorae]

I'm having trouble picturing the practicality of this item for use in Buffing other characters. I don't have the MIC personally, but from what you've said you effectively store a spell in a Glyph of Warding and then "paste" it onto something else right?

So how would your fighter be able to trigger his glyph of Righteous Might? Either he would have to come into the area with the glyph (so right after it was cast and the Fighter came in the room the spell would expend), or it would have to be put on something that can be "sealed" so a chest, maybe a book or something like that.

If the second is the way you were planning on using it, then the fighter would have to carry that object around with him. I just don't see a fighter pulling that chest with his Righteous Might glyph on it to open the chest and trigger the spell in the middle of battle myself.

If there was time to prepare...maybe, but most fights in D&D don't give a whole lot of prep time IMHO.

Please let me know if I'm missing something...

 

[FatherTome]

You're not missing anything - the basic idea is that the glyph would be placed on a container, and then the fighter (assuming Righteous Might as the example) would pull out the container and then open it - two move actions. It doesn't have to be anything large or bulky, just something nonmagical with a hard flat surface to apply the glyph to.

So you're spending a round to use the item, but you're also spending a round to use that potion of resist energy or bull's strength or cure moderate wounds, given a move action to retrieve the item and then a standard action to drink it.

The average combat with this group lasts on the order of three or four rounds, making it impractical as a general use item, but we've had a couple combats that last longer and it would be handy to have around for the more challenging fights.

Also, a couple glyphs with Cure Moderate wounds passed around to the other party members fills the same purpose as a Potion of Cure Moderate, etc, that can be replenished during downtime (mid-dungeon crawl is inconvenient as those spell slots are generally needed as spontaneous cures if not actual spells.

The idea is that these would more or less duplicate the function of a potion, would be consumed during the adventure and aren't subject to quite the same limitations as a potion (such as the restriction on 3rd level spells or lower) and could be recharged between adventures.

For the cost of one Glyph Seal, you could purchase 3 Potions of Cure Moderate Wounds and 2 Potions of Cure Light, so frankly speaking they're only economically better over the long run.

 

[Notmousse]

Consequently you could place the glyph on a potion vial, provided it's surface was flat enough. The vial itself isn't magical, and opening it is part of the standard action you take to drink the potion anyway. Bears Endurance and Bull's Strength anyone?