fighter/cleric or just cleric

Moff_Tarkin

First Post
I am creating a character for a 2nd level game and I cant decide if I want to be a fighter/cleric or just a cleric built for fighting. I know that the fighter/cleric was a good combination back in 2nd edition but the newer rules really screw over multiclass spellcasters. By taking a fighter/cleric I would have a higher base attack bonus and some more feats but I would be loosing multiple levels of spells. Fully buffed with spells a cleric can surpass a fighter in both attack and damage. The only problem is they are not always on and you usually dont know exactly when combat is coming.

OK, I've gone on for too long so let me just get to the point. Is a fighter cleric a doable combonation or am I better off going with a cleric with feats and spell chosen to up his fighting capability.
 

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Even levels aren’t as strong now, but a short dip into one or the other if still good. If you want to really be in the front line, and not worry as much about the magic, I'd keep them even until 6th level (Cleric, fighter, Cleric, Fighter, Cleric, Fighter) then take 'Craft wondrous item' and stay with fighter for levels 7-20. That will really, really, help you get the gear a fighter needs. Just get other party members to cast any high level spells you need to craft things.

You'll have second level spells and a lot of feats. Just make sure you take cleric first, so you can max out the cleric skills like concentration.

BUT, if you want to really have a lot of magic, I would stay with just one level of fighter if you want to use a lot of martial weapons, or just stay cleric if you don't.

Some other thoughts…

-If you want to use one martial weapon most of the time, just go with the war domain.

-A Dwarf makes a great fighter / cleric

-If you start with a Wisdom of 14, you can just bump it up every 4 levels and never worry about not being able to cast a spell due to lack of Wisdom. That'll save you some points for other stats.

Good luck, have fun!

-Tatsu
 

Mostly cleric, max out wisdom as much as possible, get intuitive attack and a monks belt. Rain down the furry of your god ;)

Lightning mace would be a very cool way to go. Also get divine might.

You will probably need a level or two of fighter (or psycic warrior) to get the necissary feats. Take as few levels in noncleric as possible to get all of the feats you need. Prayer beads are your friend as is the orange ioun stone (these will allow you to take more levels of noncleric and still keep up in caster level without having to spend feats to do so).
 
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My own thoughts on this: fighter and cleric combine very nicely. However, before you set out on that road, you need to decide whether you want to be a fighter/cleric, a cleric/fighter, or a fighting cleric.

A fighter/cleric is primarily a fighter. If you start with Ftr 20 as your baseline, you can take 4 levels of cleric and lose 4hp, 2 feats, and 1 point of BAB for domain powers, +3 will, +2 fort, turn undead (useful for powering divine feats), the ability to use wands, the ability to try to use scrolls, and the ability to cast 2nd level spells (which while not that impressive at 20th level, will come in handy on your way to getting there and will occasionally be useful when you are 20th level). You could also take 8 levels of cleric and exchange another point of BAB, 2 more feats, and 4 more hp for another +1 will, better domain powers and the ability to cast 4th level spells. Divine Might is a good way to crank the damage of a one-handed weapon--especially at higher levels where it's much cheaper to buy an item to increase your charisma by 4 than to buy inherent bonusses to increase your strength by two. Divine Vigor can provide extra speed and temporary hit points. Domain powers like Destruction open new avenues for you (Extra Smiting for instance) and other powers like Travel Domain or the Luck Domain can help to cover a fighter's vulnerabilities.

As a fighter/cleric, your role in a group is almost always that of a fighter. You step up to the front, you apply the beatdown, you get beat on in return. Your spells will almost entirely be long duration buffs and utility spells. Freedom of Movement works well at caster level 7 and is not effected by SR. Air Walk is a good tactical option. Death Ward is nifty even at your low caster level, etc. After combat healing also doesn't care if it comes in the form of a heal spell of four cure serious wounds spells.

Fighter/cleric is not usually a real power-gaming option since most of the buffs you can cast will be pretty trivial for the party cleric to cast if you've got one. And his buffs will be more effective. The combination is at its best in an irregular or unusual group where you sometimes have to make do without a real cleric or the cleric in question isn't a team player. A party of three characters might find the added spellpower helpful. It's also a decent choice for a solo adventure.

Cleric/fighters are multiclass spellcasters who focus on the spellcasting end of the equation. Such characters will almost never have more than four levels of fighter (for +16 BAB at 20th level) and will usually have only one or two. As extremely martial clerics, they will usually spend as many of their spells as possible on long-term buffs and keep a few quickened spells in their pocket along with Righteous Might.

Cleric/Fighters fill the role of a cleric in a party but can also fill the role of a fighter without missing a beat. The primary difference between them and the fighter/clerics are these: they use righteous might and divine power (fighter/clerics never qualify for them) and they need to use those spells to fill the combat role. Fighter/clerics find buffs helpful but are focussed enough on combat that they generally don't need them. They are a decent power-gaming choice but IMO battle clerics are better. Generally, their fighter levels are aimed at qualifying for a full BAB/nearly full spellcasting prestige class like the 3.0 Hospitaller. A 3.5 Hospitaller would be good too but loses too many caster levels for a cleric/fighter to take the class all the way to 10th level.

Battle clerics are clerics who spend their feats and select their spells to be good at melee combat. They may take prestige classes, but they take care not to lose any caster levels. Their spell selection is like a cleric/fighter but they have less flexibility in terms of feats and NEED to be seriously buffed if they're going to be on the front line. Most of them are quite capable of filling the healer/buffer/spellcaster role in a party though. There is, of course, a wide spectrum of focussedness for battle-clerics. A cleric with the war domain whose feats are power attack, cleave, quicken spell, combat expertise, Improved Trip, improved critical, power critical, and combat reflexes is a lot more focussed than a cleric who has power attack, quicken spell, weapon focus, empower spell, craft wondrous item, extra turning, Divine Spellpower, Spell Penetration, and Greater Spell penetration. The first cleric is (probably) noticably better at combat than the second but the second character has more non-weapon based options. Domain choices and stat distribution also play a role in this. A cleric with destruction and strength domains will usually be more combat focussed than one with Sun and Healing though nothing prevents you from making Mr. Sun and Healing into a battle cleric.

The truest conversion of a 1e/2e fighter/cleric would probably be a cleric/fighter. A fighter/cleric is more like a paladin. A battle cleric is pretty good too but is a better spellcaster than the 1e/2e fighter/cleric.
 
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Check out the War Priest PrC from 'Defender of the Faith'. A nice way to boost your combat skills (Best BAB) while maintaining your clerichood (and spell level progression).
 

Uggh. Warpriest is a decent class for a fighter/cleric (my terminology) to get higher caster levels but it's a lousy class for a cleric/fighter or a battle cleric. Giving up 5 caster levels is not worth it unless you're not primarily a caster. For the fighter/cleric, it means giving up greater weapon specialization and possibly Greater Weapon Focus for an extra five caster levels which could include access to Righteous Might and Quickened Divine Favor. But characters who want the role of a spellcaster and healer to be an option shouldn't apply.

Storyteller01 said:
Check out the War Priest PrC from 'Defender of the Faith'. A nice way to boost your combat skills (Best BAB) while maintaining your clerichood (and spell level progression).
 

Tatsukun said:
Even levels aren’t as strong now, but a short dip into one or the other if still good.

This is the key right here. Keeping even levels does in fact lose too much spell power. However, I have found that picking up 1 or 2 levels in fighting is a very strong complement to spellcasting, and you only lose the one top spell level in so doing.
 

Moff_Tarkin said:
OK, I've gone on for too long so let me just get to the point. Is a fighter cleric a doable combonation or am I better off going with a cleric with feats and spell chosen to up his fighting capability.

I think any combination between Cleric and Fighter makes for a good character. If you want to focus primarily on the combat aspect, you can also be mostly fighter with a few levels of cleric (low-level buffs and healing spells are still useful). Take the few levels of cleric early however, so that you can immediately access basic healing.
 


Choosing betwwen fighter/cleric and cleric might also depend on your character's in-campaign experience.
If he's the fighter type, and you're in an Underdark-type campaign full of ambushes against your party, with nasty dispelling drow and demon spellcasters, then a fighter-cleric may have a better combat readiness.
If your agenda is more like a fight a day, then single class cleric is probably more potent.
Also, the choice of fighter level may also depend on your combat style : some weapons, combat styles (such as 2-weapon) or functions during melee may require more feats (and then fighter level). If you're just looking for the straight max damage in a round type, well, a fully buffed single cleric probably can't be beaten.
In either case, never forget quicken spell !

Other combinations include classic Brb2/ClericX for rage, low-level skills and HP and uncanny dodge and FtrX/Clr1-3 with access to divine wands, divine feats (recycle useless turning into something combat-effective), and some useful, mostly defensive spells when you're on your own (resist enregy… maybe align weapon too).
 

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