Feats for a Zen Archer Monk

[StreamOfTheSky]

I just started playing the above archetype, and while it seems inferior to archer ranger (HD, skills, BAB, spells, extra actions animal companion) in almost every way, it is still fun, I think I quite like it. One of the definite strengths of the class is the massive amount of bonus feats you get, many of them hitting you right at the first levels. On the downside, this also has caused a "happy" problem: This is possibly the first character ever I can't find useful feats for past level 3!

You get bonus feats at level 1 and 2 for Precise Shot and Point Blank Shot (you could take Far Shot or other less useful feats, but why would you?). Level 2 gives Weapon Focus. Level 3 gives Point Blank Master. Level 6 gives Improved Precise Shot (anyone who doesn't expend the monk bonus feat on this immediately upon becoming available is a fool, IMO!) and Weapon Specialization. I think it's worthless, but level 10 even lets you bag Shot on the Run without the pre-reqs.

So...what's left to really take? Level 3's easy: Deadly Aim (BAB req prevents you from obtaining at level 1). After that, it gets kinda hard... I maintain Far Shot is worthless, especially after PF nerfed it. Rapid Shot and Manyshot explicitly do nothing for you.

In my case, the game allows anything Pathfinder. Which basically means core, APG, and all the crazy broken on d20pfsrd. Obviously in a game with 3E material allowed, there is no problem.

Thus far the only feat I've found to directly aid in archery is Noble Scion. Terrible car, great feat.
"Narikopolus: Whenever you use a composite Strength bow of your Strength bonus or lower, you deal +2 points of damage with it."
It's like getting Weapon Specialization...again!

Beyond that, it seems to be a question of what defensive abilities or cool tricks you want. I like to spend most of my money on defense and most of my feats on offense generally, but what can I do? Here's my current list of potential feats to grab as my character levels up (just hit 4):

Dodge: +1 AC and CMD is never bad.
Deflect Arrows: If the tank and battlefield control mage are doing their jobs, arrows may be one of the only things you have to worry about, so negating 1/round seems nice.
Nimble Moves: Lets you basically always 5 ft step. If you need to adjust position for whatever reason, being able to do so no matter what is pretty nice. Considering you not only have all the normal archer reasons to want to always full attack, but also only get to have full BAB and blow ki points for extra attacks while full attacking on top of those reasons.
Spider Step [APG]: Requires 6 skill ranks in one good skill and one poor one, and the benefit is possibly impractical in most situations. Still, moving half your slow fall distance across water or on a ceiling is so inherently badass this is my level 7 feat anyway.
Cloud Step [APG]: Requires Spider Step and 12 ranks in the same skills. Air Walking at half your slow fall distance at will is surely useful.
Other "fist" feats: Once you hit level 11, you have the BAB +8 to legit qualify for these, and as written by RAW, as a monk you get to use each of them once/day/level. Seems potentially useful once you get the free Ki Focus on your bow at class level 17, at least for a high level build.

Anything else in PF that's useful to a Zen Archer that I missed? Think any of those feats are totally unimportant?

 

[gamerprinter]

Well you mentioned all the books you're being allowed, so this will probably not help, but consider Louis J. Porter Jr's UndeFEATable #6 Rangers - I think it will cost you a $1 for the PDF... Pathfinder Compatible.

Archers Coup de Grace - coup de grace helpless opponents at 30' distance
Armor Piercing Shot - requires Craft (armor) 6 ranks, allows you to study your armored opponent for one round, then you make a Perception check to penetrate the armor.
Arrow Stab - obvious...
Arrow Trip - make a trip attack at range.
Dead Shot - bypass cover on opponent.
Deadly Aim - increase critical multiplier
Threatened Zone/Improved Threatened Zone - while armed with a bow, opponents who enter a 30'/40' radius is threatening you and allows for AoO within that range.
Instinctive Shot - increase range with Wis Bonus
Killing Shot - reduce to single attack gain pluses to hit.
Overpenetrate - like 3x cleave, though if you kill your target, arrow flies through the victim into someone behind that target.
Pinpoint Accuracy - bonus to hit with single shot
Perfect Shot - bonus damage if reduce to a single shot per round
Ranged Trip - similar to Arrow Trip, though better I think
Reflexive Shot - like 2e if your bow is nocked attack on surprise round.

Some of these feats are prereq's for others, I didn't give too much detail so it would be still worthy to get this book.

If on the other hand you can't use this book... sorry couldn't help you.

GP

 

[nothingpoetic]

Combining some of the single shot feats from gamer's post, with the vital strike line and the snipe action would be pretty devastating...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The problem is, Zen Archer really really wants to full attack. I see no reason to burn a whole lot of feats on a tactic you can't combine with the flurry. Keep in mind that not only do you have full BAB only when full attacking, not only does full attacking give you flurry (basically like rapid shot for a while), not only does full attacking let you spend ki points for another attack... You have point blank master, so you should never even really need to move for many reasons anyway. You can shoot people right in the face, and get +1 attack and damage for it, too.

Regardless, I couldn't take any of those feats. Only d20pfsrd, core PF, and APG is allowed. Thanks for the help anyway, the feats for a long range threatened area seem interesting, even though Zen Archer lets you threaten adjacent with the bow at level 9 anyway.

 

[gamerprinter]

Ranged martial weapons of x3 critical modifier, so take Improved Critical when he's 11th level. The critical feat chain is probably no good as it won't be available until 13th+ level.

Since you like the Threatened Zone idea, how about Combat Patrol in the APG, you need Combat Reflexes and Mobility, as well as +5 BAB. It takes a full round action to set it up, until the beginning of your next turn, increasing your threatened zone by 5 feet for every 5 points of BAB, during that round you may make Attacks of Opportunity at any opponent in the threatened area that provokes an Attack of Opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks - of course with a bow you don't have to.

Take Shot on the Run, then at 8th level, take Parting Shot from the APG. Make a ranged attack while withdrawing.

You can't go wrong with Spider Step and Cloud Step, for ninja like movement and Air Walk (half your slow fall movement). Not so much to help your archery, but better movment options.

I also like Second Chance and Improved Second Chance allowing to trade lower iterative attacks for missed first attack, then reroll missed shots at a -5. Would this work with Flurry?

Perhaps some of the Teamword feats, if other party members take them as well, might be helpful.

Other ones to look at anyway, most in the APG.

GP

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ranged martial weapons of x3 critical modifier, so take Improved Critical when he's 11th level. The critical feat chain is probably no good as it won't be available until 13th+ level.

Imp. Crit's actually available as a level 10 bonus feat, the only reason I wouldn't take it there is if I wanted Shot on the Run. That said, I've never found Imp. Crit to be worth it on a "20" weapon, the higher threat range weapons get such a blatantly better boost out of it. Also, the class per day ability, Perfect Strike, requires when using it that if one of the rolls is a threat, the other roll is used to confirm. I don't like the odds of getting two good rolls simultaneously, so that hurts critting. Finally, I don't think the crit feats are very useful without a 15-20 threat range (like a scimitar could give), I think I'm better off with the "Fist" feats at those levels. Also...I have to leave the game end of February, I'm totally never getting that high in level anyway.

Since you like the Threatened Zone idea, how about Combat Patrol in the APG, you need Combat Reflexes and Mobility, as well as +5 BAB. It takes a full round action to set it up, until the beginning of your next turn, increasing your threatened zone by 5 feet for every 5 points of BAB, during that round you may make Attacks of Opportunity at any opponent in the threatened area that provokes an Attack of Opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks - of course with a bow you don't have to.

Combat Reflexes isn't very useful till level 9; my unarmed attacks are pathetic compared to bow shots. And that's a lot of (weak) feat investment for a questionable payoff... Still, noted.

Take Shot on the Run, then at 8th level, take Parting Shot from the APG. Make a ranged attack while withdrawing.

Why would I need Parting Shot? It can only be used once/encounter and is only one shot while withdrawing. I want full attacks, and suffer no particular bad stuff for shooting in melee (other than that the other guy probably does more damage than me). If I could use Parting Shot while moving with Spider Step / Cloud Walk, I'd be more impressed. But those are move actions to use. I'll probably take Shot on the Run at 10, it does have some usage for combats where the other guy has no way of closing with me, to slowly and safely pick him off, I suppose.

You can't go wrong with Spider Step and Cloud Step, for ninja like movement and Air Walk (half your slow fall movement). Not so much to help your archery, but better movment options.

Yes, plan to take these just for the cool factor.

I also like Second Chance and Improved Second Chance allowing to trade lower iterative attacks for missed first attack, then reroll missed shots at a -5. Would this work with Flurry?

Probably, but flurry gives two attacks at full BAB anyway, seems pretty silly to throw the rest away or suffer a large penalty on them for the first attack again.

Perhaps some of the Teamword feats, if other party members take them as well, might be helpful.

Not sure any are much help for an archer, but maybe. We have a very large party...

Thanks for your help.

 

[pawsplay]

I think focusing on full attacks is a limited perspective. Since you have already stated there aren't enough feats that even interest you, why not invest in a few contingencies? Vital Strike is very solid, and further, can help you out in bad DR situations, like if you fight a lich, or need to avoid changing terrain conditions.

Improved Critical is a very good feat. The bow only crits on a 20, but when it does crit, it gets x3. So it's just as good, really, with a bow as it is with a 19-20/x2 weapon. Considering how many attacks you are potentially getting with flurry, you could be scoring a critical hit every other round. Obviously other more bread-and-butter feats are going to come first, but I would not discount ImpCrit. Further, Improved Critical synergizes really well with Perfect Strike.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Vital Strike might be a decent level 9 choice, the medium BAB sort of hinders that route, though. I still don't see Improved Crit being very good with a small threat range, and I honestly never liked the x3 and x4 crit weapons, because I only ever seem to crit when it's overkill with them.

I'm actually thinking Snatch Arrows could be a good choice for the level 10 feat now. Saves me a feat on Deflect Arrows and is pretty cool. Shame you have to toss a thrown weapon back at the same person, otherwise it could be a pretty fun way to convert an ally's lowest BAB attack into one with your highest.

I can't think of a scenario where shot on the run would be useful wherein the other side isn't already completely hosed anyway. I guess if they can beat me in a shootout I'd want to keep them from full attacking me and keep running behind and out of cover. But if I can't win a shootout, I've probably failed as an archer anyway. Certainly makes Vital Strike look nicer on the defensive end of that tactic, as the one thing that kept flashing into my mind when thinking of trading single attacks with Shot on the Run and being a coward was: "If the other guy has Vital Strike, he can ready to use it when I pop out, but I can't use VS with Shot on the Run..."

 

[pawsplay]

I would definitely take Vital Strike over Shot on the Run. You can always tumble and shoot. Shot on the Run is very situational to when you can do good damage with one shot, and you can begin and end with total cover. Monk zen archer is not the best way to do that, for sure.

 

[Jadeite]

Considering that perfect strike greatly improves the chance of criting, improved critical might be a good choice, especially when combined with critical focus.