D&D 5E Feats, class balance and fun

[Barolo]

I DM and play 5e using all available feats since day 0, and so far my table has no complaints about it. In my experience, feats are chosen for a plentiful of reasons, ranging from character background characterization to optimization on the various pillars of the game.

Now, while exploration-focused, social, or even defensive feats seem to appeal to all sorts of PCs, feats for offensive combat optimization, IME, are more sough after by the martial types.

For myself, I wouldn't mind playing in a table without feats, but I guess this would affect my class choices, as I really don't care never taking feats as a spellcaster, or playing a MAD class, but would definitely find it very lacking the perspective of playing a SAD character without feats. The worst case would be a fighter, as this class not only is usually quite SAD, but on top of that has extra ABIs.

As I don't have experience playing without feats, it makes me wonder. What do you guys think about it? Is getting yet another ABI as a 14th level fighter still exciting when there are no feats to choose from? Does it affect how you feel as a high level fighter alongside your reality-changing wizard friend? Something else?

Thanks of all contributions in advance.

 

[Xeviat]

Because Fighters (champions mostly) don't have much in the way of choices to do cool stuff, and largely because I cut my teeth on 3rd Edition, I'd enjoy the game less as a Fighter in a game with no feats. If my DM was especially good at improvisation with skills, if my Fighter could do cool things with their Int or Cha, then maybe extra stat ups would be fine. If it's a pure brute fight fest all the time, then I'm going to max str and then con; if I started with a 16/14, that will take me up to 14th level, so a while. But I'd certainly get bored.

"Yay, I have more HP" vs "yay, I can shield bash as a bonus action" are very different things.


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[TallIan]

I think I agree with your comments.

I'm finding shield master in particular ever more appealing to my fighters. Once strength is capped, the appeal in ASIs drops off.

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[FormerlyHemlock]

I would not want to play a fighter in a featless game that went above 5th level or so. Being a combat medic (via the Healer feat), hey, that's cool. Getting +1 to rolls against a secondary or tertiary stat? Not so cool.

I think any other class except maybe Barbarian could be pretty fun in a featless game, but the fighter's identity is deeply tied to feats. Rogues would lose something (they are also SAD with extra ASIs) but would still have a niche.

 

[ccs]

Does it affect how you feel as a high level fighter alongside your reality-changing wizard friend?

My reality-changing wizard friends will be changing reality wether I have feats or not. They've been doing so for decades, regardless of edition. There's no feat (aside from in 3x Epic/Mythic PF) that a fighter can take to rival that.
So were I to suffer class ability envy (I don't)? Then I wouldn't be playing a fighter in the 1st place.

As my favorite edition is 1e, I have zero problems playing a fighter to high lvs without feats (or even built in ASIs).

And yes, for me, another ASI is still just as exciting as a feat (picking new feats is not a favorite activity for me in 3x/PF, just a chore). Better yet, my ____ Saves increase.
I'm also one of the odd players who will boost things like Wis, Cha, & Int as a fighter - because I've likely started off with decent+ Str/Dex/Con scores.

 

[Barolo]

My reality-changing wizard friends will be changing reality wether I have feats or not. They've been doing so for decades, regardless of edition. There's no feat (aside from in 3x Epic/Mythic PF) that a fighter can take to rival that.
So were I to suffer class ability envy (I don't)? Then I wouldn't be playing a fighter in the 1st place.

Sure they will. The thing is, for me, having the possibility of picking feats makes the game as a whole, and combat specifically more interesting for a fighter. More as a matter of variety than raw power really. The reference about wizards was intended to be more comical, and to allude to their vast repertoire accumulated throughout the levels.

As my favorite edition is 1e, I have zero problems playing a fighter to high lvs without feats (or even built in ASIs).

Well, back in the day nobody was getting either.

And yes, for me, another ASI is still just as exciting as a feat (picking new feats is not a favorite activity for me in 3x/PF, just a chore). Better yet, my ____ Saves increase.
I'm also one of the odd players who will boost things like Wis, Cha, & Int as a fighter - because I've likely started off with decent+ Str/Dex/Con scores.

Fair. Thanks for the insight.

On one hand I don't think it is odd at all to increase some non-combat attribute. Depending on where the story goes, it can match well the expectations. On the other hand, being able to take resilient: wisdom if I want a more strong-willed hero, or taking alert if I want to be more aware, usually feels more rewarding to me instead of just increasing the wisdom score, though.

 

[CydKnight]

So far I have only allowed feats after 5th level though I have considered only allowing feats after maxing out an ability score. As I get more comfortable with feats, this approach could very well change for me by allowing them sooner or possibly even at character creation.

I am running a campaign now where players are approaching 6th level and I am curious if anyone will take a feat as they all so far seem intent on improving what they feel is their most vital ability score.

At higher levels I imagine it's not as exciting to receive that +2 to ability score improvement unless I am maxing one out at 20 so I feel in a majority of cases I am looking for a feat more often than not as I get over level 10.

If I were a PC, I wouldn't be comparing my character to another unless we were of the same class and even then I would be more worried about having my character stand out in the areas I want and that is often going to be different even between two characters of the same class.

 

[Barolo]

So far I have only allowed feats after 5th level though I have considered only allowing feats after maxing out an ability score. As I get more comfortable with feats, this approach could very well change for me by allowing them sooner or possibly even at character creation.

Interesting. For me maxing an ability score has a mildly displeasing side effect, specially when this ability is strength. I am not sure if the game was intended to link directly the physical attributes with the overall character looks, but I can't help imagining every 20 str hero as a hulking pile of muscles. And while it doesn't bother me when every high level barbarian looks just like this, it has a detrimental effect for me when all str-based fighters and paladins also look this way. The way I project the image of the arquetypal fighting hero is something more balanced, with strength and grace complementing each other. And while the game does not really offer many tools for such, I was toying with the idea of creating a feat, or set of feats, to allow for a combination of str and dex for physical (melee and ranged) attack and damage rolls, obviously capping the bonus to +5, so not to incur in any bloat.

 

[CydKnight]

Interesting. For me maxing an ability score has a mildly displeasing side effect, specially when this ability is strength. I am not sure if the game was intended to link directly the physical attributes with the overall character looks, but I can't help imagining every 20 str hero as a hulking pile of muscles. And while it doesn't bother me when every high level barbarian looks just like this, it has a detrimental effect for me when all str-based fighters and paladins also look this way. The way I project the image of the arquetypal fighting hero is something more balanced, with strength and grace complementing each other. And while the game does not really offer many tools for such, I was toying with the idea of creating a feat, or set of feats, to allow for a combination of str and dex for physical (melee and ranged) attack and damage rolls, obviously capping the bonus to +5, so not to incur in any bloat.

Yes, visualizations can sometimes get in the way of actual ability scores. I suppose it would be up to the DM to work with the player to come to a visualization that works for all. Strength would seem like one of the easier feats to translate to a character portrait though. Where I would really have trouble is if you had a true pure elf class with a strength over 176 when the PHB description of them is a slight build. I'm not sure I can visualize a 5' 11", 145 lb. high elf with that type of strength naturally and a hulking, hearty 6'6" 275 lb. one just doesn't seem possible.

 

[lowkey13]

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