D&D 3E/3.5 Essence of 3E DND

[evildmguy]

Greetings!

After posting someting on ID2, I got to thinking. What is the essence of the game mechanics of 3E?

Here is what I have come up with, as a start.

Attributes - Single table, single mechanic.

About the only thing I can't figure out is CHA. There have been some very good discussions on that here about how INT is "force of INT", Wis is "force of willpower" and CHA is "force of personality". While I like it, I sometimes find the line between willpower and personality a very blurry line. Anyone care to try again or have some other idea? Perhaps, CHA is how something is said by the *character* regardless of how the *player* said it. So, if the player said, "back off!" maybe the high CHA character said, "Let's just calm down and have a drink." while the low CHA character said, "Get the f**k out of my f*****g face, you . . ." Does that work?

Races - ? Not sure on this one. Still have the generic fantasy races that DND has always had. Mechanically, they are little easier to deal with. For example, I like low-light better than the old infravision. Not sure about preferred class and the XP penalty. I don't know of many other d20 systems, if any, that are using it.

Classes - Okay, classes still are defined by *class* abilities. Abilities that no one else can have or get unless you are a member of that class. I don't know that I have all of them, but here are a few:

Barbarian - Rage, DR, Dodge.
Bard - Music and Skills. (Anyone else think that Monte Cook's version is better? I do. Better flavor for the bard?)
Cleric - Divine spells. Power over undead.
Druid - Divine spells. Shape changing. Animal mastery.
Fighter - Feat master!
Monk - Unarmed attack. Movement. A slew of fighting abilities. (I think the Monk is "balanced" by all that she has because as a whole, she doesn't seem any more powerful. Ideas?)
Paladin - Divine spells. Lay on hands. Bonus to saves. Detect Evil.
Ranger - Divine Spells. Favored enemy. Virtual feats. (Again, I think Monte Cook's version is a little better.)
Rogue - Skill master!
Sorcerer - Arcane spells. No memorization. Limited spell selection. (Again, you'd think I was getting a kickback! I think Monte's is better. Having said that, I think, to truly give the Sorcerer his own flavor, that he should use the rules in If Thoughts Could Kill and have Mana Points to cast spells. That's me, though.)
Wizard - Arcane spells. Memorization but not limit to known spells. Item Creation.

(I tried not to mention something that another class got but instead, list unique or big abilities of that class. For example, arcane spells define both Sorcerer and Wizard so I put that down for both. I didn't put Metamagic, though, as any spell caster can benefit from them, not just these two.)

Rolling - simplified. Task resolution always equals d20 and always want high for all rolls.

[Others that I don't have time for right now.]

Hmmm . . .

I am not trying to start a class discussion but more of a "What are the sacred cows of DND?" If it has already happened, just point me to that post!

Thanks!

edg

 

[Fast Learner]

About the only thing I can't figure out is CHA. There have been some very good discussions on that here about how INT is "force of INT", Wis is "force of willpower" and CHA is "force of personality". While I like it, I sometimes find the line between willpower and personality a very blurry line. Anyone care to try again or have some other idea?

Seems to me that it's a first-person/third-person distinction. Things that are affecting you are battled with your willpower. When you are trying to affect others then it's your personality that's doing the work.

It's easy to imagine someone who would never reveal information while being tortured but would have a hard time convincing you of anything (high Wis, low Cha), and contrarily someone who could charm the pants off of you while folding at the slightest threat (low Wis, high Cha).

 

[evildmguy]

Simple and elegant

Wow! Thanks for the reply! That was a nice and simple explanation of CHA.

So, here is my question, shouldn't divine spellcasters be using CHA instead of WIS? Likewise, shouldn't bards and sorcerers be using WIS? If CHA is the attribute that influences others, isn't that what agents of the gods do? Isn't the Sorcerers ability to manipulate energy a force of willpower?

Just some thoughts.

Thanks!

edg

 

[Xarlen]

Yes, but Religious figures are (supposed to) be revered for their Wisdom in things. They will do what is right, or wrong. Intelligence is logical, but Wisdom could be ethical.

 

[dren]

What is the essence of the game mechanics of 3E?

Easy...rolling higher on a d20 is better than rolling lower in every game skill and/or situation. Add to this, the higher level you are, the more you get to add to your basic roll.

Bloody brilliant and can't get more simplier than that. No THAC0s, no 6d6 vs 12d6 for the same skill, no rolling high for saves and then rolling low for a attribute check. Higher is better than low.

God (or whichever power you so choose) bless that mechanic.

dren

 

[silvertable81]

I read and believe that the true essence of 3e overall is "It's not about what you can't do, but what happens if you try."

 

[Destil]

Cha vs. Wis

Wis - Willpower to control one's self, perception of the outside world, intuition.
Cha - Willpower to affect other things, self perception, social 'presence'.

Look at the MM, for instance. A creature with no wisdom can't perceive things, a creature with no charisma can't perceive the difference between itself and the rest of the world. Not becoming a chaos beast once you're bitten requires a Cha check, a check of self awareness. Finding someone in hiding is a Wis skill, a check of awareness of your environment. Also note from the MM that you can't have one without the other, and that anything without either is an inanimate, non-sentient, object.

Sorcerers use Cha, because it not only reflects their ability to affect the world around them, but also reflects how well they know and understand their own power.

Clerics use Wis because they need to understand the world around them, the works of their god, and gain their power from without. The higher their wisdom the more aware they are of their god.


Sacred Cows you ask? Man... where to start... most of the arcane spell list, Dragons (A shame, since if Green Dragons had a sonic breath weapon that did more damage underwater I think things would be more interesting).

 

[Ferox4]

I read and believe that the true essence of 3e overall is "It's not about what you can't do, but what happens if you try."

Absolutely! With the Skill point system there are now multiple ways to resolve an unexpected situation whereas in the past there was so much gray area for the DM to referee. For example, the other night on of the PCs is flying alongside a Roc that is carrying one of his fellow PCs off into the distance. He wants to grab the back of the huge bird and hang on. DM says give mw a balance check DC XX. Players are happy that there are established skills that pertain to almost any situation and DMs are happy because it makes them seem more impartial.

 

[LostSoul]

The essence of 3e D&D is: roll 1d20 + modifiers against a DC.

The rest is just window dressing.

 

[BluWolf]

I think Destil makes a very nice argument for what CHA and WIS are.

However, IMCW most clerics do use CHA as their spell casting ability. Shaman and druids use WIS.

Clerics, or more accurately priests and warlocks, gain thier spell abilities from thier respective religious orders, not from thier god.